Jessop's memoir should not be read as a dependency petition or CPS allegations in the current situation with the recent raid. The harm done to the children and their mother's separation now is the greater abuse than any allegation or "reasonable cause" that brought the raid. It was one phone call and that person has not come forward, and the police already admitted to having an informant in the community for a very long time, who hadn't been able to discover any kind of illegal behavior or non-consenual acts. At the very least, if one person made claims personally, that person's direct family may have been affected, but the claim cannot be made to apply to each and every family, vicariously, simply because our society doesn't understand their system or culture. I saw a priest feedback after the interviews of some of the women, and he called THEIR community a "cult". Which is fascinating when his community absolutely FORBIDS sexual contact of any kind for their "religious" and which also requires members to fully believe the wine and bread is transformed mystically into the very essence of Christ Himself. Not to mention purgatory for babies who haven't been baptised and other things, like purgatory in general and then the convenient emphasis of indulgences as get-out-jail-free cards. If children are FORCED into marriage, this is abuse. But only one person even made that claim and hasn't come forward. I'm quite sure the kids who are 12 and under are not being forced into marriage, yet all were taken, not just teenagers. And if teenagers can get pregnant and have babies and go on welfare to support themselves, and if they are lawfully allowed to marry after age 15 or 16 in some states, with parental consent, there is no illegality. The sheer fact there is polygamy is not even "ILLEGAL" as the media claims, because there are no "legal" multiple marriages. They are conducting their own "spiritual" marriages which are no different than the spoken or unspoken contract between a mistress and her "benefactor" or "master". Canada is not harassing these communities. Only in America.

"The harm done to the children and their mother's separation now is the greater abuse than any allegation or "reasonable cause" that brought the raid. "

You are assuming an awful lot there. You don't have personal knowledge of the reasons CPS removed the kids. Frankly, if the kids told CPS that "Father says sister won't go to Heaven if she doesn't marry Uncle Frank," and sister is 14 years old, and sister says she has accepted her spiritual marriage to Uncle Frank and now she's 6 months pregnant and is only beaten "sometimes," it would be appalling if CPS didn't get the kids out of there until they could sort it all out.

It was one phone call and that person has not come forward, and the police already admitted to having an informant in the community for a very long time, who hadn't been able to discover any kind of illegal behavior or non-consenual acts. At the very least, if one person made claims personally, that person's direct family may have been affected, but the claim cannot be made to apply to each and every family, vicariously, simply because our society doesn't understand their system or culture.

"It was one phone call and that person has not come forward, and the police already admitted to having an informant in the community for a very long time, who hadn't been able to discover any kind of illegal behavior or non-consenual acts."

Again, you don't know what you're talking about. First, it was at least TWO calls from the girl, whether anyone has "come forward" to identify herself or not, and you don't have a clue what the informant had told police, let alone whether the person "hadn't been able to discover any kind of illegal behavior or non-consensual acts." Whether an informant had been helpful or not, a KID called twice asking for help for sexual and physical abuse. Texas had no "ignore" option at that point.

"At the very least, if one person made claims personally, that person's direct family may have been affected, but the claim cannot be made to apply to each and every family, vicariously, simply because our society doesn't understand their system or culture."

Well, it's clear that YOU don't understand the FLDS culture, but the Texas authorities did. The whole community in that compound was "that person's direct family." Police found records indicating that 20 sister-wives of one man live in a single residence; if the girl was one of them, is it your assertion that the entire household was or wasn't "that person's direct family"? The group is directed by their prophet and their local leaders, and they disobey at risk of being booted from the community. The fact is, the kids were removed regardless of their inclusion in "that person's direct family" and instead because when authorities talked to the kids, they learned enough to convince them that the kids needed to be taken away from that environment.

"I saw a priest feedback after the interviews of some of the women, and he called THEIR community a "cult". Which is fascinating when his community absolutely FORBIDS sexual contact of any kind for their "religious" and which also requires members to fully believe the wine and bread is transformed mystically into the very essence of Christ Himself. Not to mention purgatory for babies who haven't been baptised and other things, like purgatory in general and then the convenient emphasis of indulgences as get-out-jail-free cards."

I doubt CPS can be excused from acting simply because you think Catholics and other Christians are weird.

"But only one person even made that claim and hasn't come forward. I'm quite sure the kids who are 12 and under are not being forced into marriage, yet all were taken, not just teenagers. And if teenagers can get pregnant and have babies and go on welfare to support themselves, and if they are lawfully allowed to marry after age 15 or 16 in some states, with parental consent, there is no illegality."

First of all, the FLDS practice of forcing very young girls to marry old men was the basis for Warren Jeffs' recent conviction and imprisonment. It's not disputed that the FLDS moved to Texas to take advantage of the laws of that state that permitted 14 year olds to marry with parental consent (that law has been replaced by one with a minimum of 16 years in response to the settlement of the FLDS in Eldorado). Sure, a girl in Detroit can get knocked up and go on welfare at 15, but you better believe that if CPS in Michigan were told that her parents made her "spiritually marry" a married old man and bullied her into making babies with him by telling her she'd be shunned by her isolated and oddball community, authorities would take similar action. The distinction you're ignoring is that the girl in the FLDS compound isn't just screwing with her teenaged boyfriend and then finding out "oops" she's preggers. Also, she isn't being told to claim welfare so that the father can line his pockets while she denies knowing who or where he is (why do you think the kids in Texas are being DNA tested? they've been trained not to identify their parents). As for "only one person," well, CPS apparently found plenty of other girls with shockingly similar stories, and they couldn't ignore what they learned just because it wasn't "the one" who called.

"The sheer fact there is polygamy is not even "ILLEGAL" as the media claims, because there are no "legal" multiple marriages. They are conducting their own "spiritual" marriages which are no different than the spoken or unspoken contract between a mistress and her "benefactor" or "master". Canada is not harassing these communities. Only in America."

Your first sentence makes no sense.

A "mistress" isn't the same as a 14 year old girl being screwed by a married 50 year old man. How on earth can anyone claim that a 14 year old, or even a 16 year old, actually has the capacity under the circumstances to make a mature and independent decision to "spiritually marry" that man and begin bearing 12 kids for him?

America isn't "harassing these communities." America is protecting children from pedophiles and abusers who act in the name of religion. As for what Canada is doing or has done, do some research. Plural wives have been expelled from Canada because they aren't legally "married" to men legally in Canada, even though the women have several children with those men. Canadian authorities have looked into steps that can be taken to end the practices occurring in Bountiful, another community that, like Eldorado, was settled by people originally from the FLDS communities in northern Arizona and southern Utah.

No matter how willing you are personally to claim it's just peachy, what the polygamists do to women, children and castoff boys, not to mention welfare fraud (my tax dollars, and yours if you pay any), is appalling an indefensible and isn't preferable to the painful but necessary steps that the FLDS kids are unfortunately living through at the moment.

"No matter how willing you are personally to claim it's just peachy, what the polygamists do to women, children and castoff boys, not to mention welfare fraud (my tax dollars, and yours if you pay any), is appalling an indefensible and isn't preferable to the painful but necessary steps that the FLDS kids are unfortunately living through at the moment."

Very true. The removal was absolutely necessary to break the cycle of child abuse.

The welfare fraud ticks me off to no end. How have they gotten away with it for so long? They even joke about 'bleeding the beast'.

bouncy:

Are you an FLDS member or something? I am having a difficult time understanding where your sympathy for a child-abuse cult comes from.

Yeah, it seems like the cult go their PR people to defend them on message boards.

A mistress and her "master"? That line explains quite a bit. You are one sick puppy.

Hate to tell you, but if bigamy is illegal, as it is in Texas (Penal Code Chapter 25.01), then it's not exactly a leap across the Grand Canyon to say that polygamy would be considered illegal too.

And these were not consenting adults participating, the "mistresses" in these cases were still considered children in the state of Texas. From what I understand, Mormons follow both the Bible and the Book of Mormon, so "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's". Did Jesus not advocate following the law as well? And last I checked, even Indecency with a Child was illegal.

As was mentioned in another thread, did you consider the fact that authorities may be protecting the potential reporting party? Maybe the possibility exists that, if they release her identity, she will be harassed by these cult members and their sympathizers and her testimony be subject to improper influence?

But of course, in your opinion, she's subject to her "master" or "benefactor" so her opinion doesn't really count because she's female. Who's discriminating now?

I'm glad to finally hear that someone is calling this group a cult. They are not mormon for the simple fact that they are disregarding the basic values Mormon taught. Yes, you are correct. Mormons follow the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctorine and Covenants, and Pearl of Price. These people were not being taken into custody, or raided because of their poligamist values. That is what the media is focusing on, to draw in their viewers. Tell me let's put this situation in a different senario. If a mother anywhere else in the world, let's say she's catholic, let her daughter be taken advangtage of by a priest because God spoke to him and told him to, should she be allowed to keep her daughter. She didn't know, right? She was brainwashed by her religous leader. Regardless of whether they were spirtually bound, which by the way those men doing said ceremonies held no power to do something like that according to the Mormon religion, does not matter. These 50 year old men, in the eyes of the law, where not marriage to these underage girls. Which means participating in sexual acts with them, IS ILLEGAL!! And if a girl is being sexually abused, or has made claims to such events, and it is a known fact that her mother has other children. In any situation they would take the children into custody. The offcials don't know if the mother is allowing, if she knows, heck she might even being joining in for all they know. In situations regarding a child's saftey it's best to act first, and apologize later.

Oh, those poor, picked on, 50 year old child rapist perverts.

Oh, boo, hoo, they have been exposed, they have been stopped & they should all go to jail & be treated the same way they have treated underage children.

Today it was observed that there are 50+ men on the "compound" and over 200 women. Roughly 4 per man. The elite get 7. Oh yeah, the wives can be "transferred" to another husband. No wonder the children don't know who their father is.