And I don't mean Obama.

You know folks, this has never been a friendly place even at the best of times. Feuds come and feuds go but the enmity never dies. Old shit seethes like paint fumes under a pile of rags. The casual knife in the back. The club in the alley. These are all BOTF standards of behavior.

We accept that this is a rough and tumble realm and that a lot of people from very disparate head spaces and life styles have shown up here for reasons no one can explain. Maybe it's the Best of the Fray thing. We all think we're the best of it. Given that the nastiness pervades all of the frays that may be true but it is probably only in our minds. Also, being the best of anything here is still a long way from being any good at anything anywhere else in the real world.

Slate had the worst writers of any major on line magazine I've ever come across. It's trite, superficial and very much a part of the mass media which is reflected in the truly poor posts that are usually check-marked in an attempt to dumb down the writing; not that they need to try very hard in many cases.

All that aside, and I stand behind what I've said... all that aside... I've never seen the kind of thing I am seeing now. This thing with Obama has turned a lot of you into meth-freaks in search of a cage match. If you're frothing at home the way you are frothing here it is a wonder you don't short out your keyboards.

The more I see of the criticisms leveled at Obama, the more I like him. I still don't actually like him and I won't be able to until I see what he does if he gets the chance. But I have to tell you, many of you have had your head copped and are doing the neo-cons job for them. The point is to get a democratic president, not throw the game into the hands of a senile wack job filled with sturm und drang who shits his pants.

They only want McCain in office because of whomever is going to be Vice President. You can take that to the bank; not that that's a good idea right now.

I know many of you don't like each other very much and never will and I don't care one way or the other about that. That's for you to sort out but you are doing yourselves a disservice and serving your worst enemy at the same time. You are also making yourselves look bad far beyond what you normally achieve during your times of remission.

If you like one candidate over the other then speak in measured and reasonable terms. Argue your points. it's one thing for Jack to bait everyone and play the fool for his own entertainment but some of you are costing yourselves something you don't want to lose.

I like people here who don't like me because I appreciate that they occasionally say something that makes me think. I appreciate people whose positions are far different than mine. One-Eyed Jasper and I are poles apart, the same with Inkberrow and certain others but if I let my perspective triumph over my capacity to be objective I lose the enjoyment of their articulation and presentation. I lose the chance to grow.

Some of you are terminally wigged and nothing (it seems) is going to help that. But some of you are formally reasonable individuals and you need to take a moment and step back and think about some of the things you are saying.

Yeah, I know some witch-burner will come out of the wicker basket and give me what for about some of my positions, but I only state them, I don't get into shouting matches and endless ad hominem fuck you's and your mothers; however many you've had.

Ideas are just that. Show some statesmanship. Be graceful. You can use a whip hand but use it with some elegance. You're embarrassing yourselves. It hurts me to see this and that is why I am saying it.

Nothing you say here is going to have any impact on the election but it will have an impact on your time here and the way you see yourselves through the eyes of others as the cyber-telepathy kicks in and it's later down the road. If I could take back some of the things I said a few years ago I would but "the moving finger, having writ, moves on." Don't do what many of us have done, to our regret- even if it was something different it is always the same.

Maybe I lost the power of my point somewhere along the way while trying to make it but I can't go back now. So, just think about it. Think about some of the things you are saying.

I said it, and I've meant every word of it.

Including all that flattering shit I said about the Patriots.

that one day, you would become the calming hand of reason... in BOTF?

good post.

Do you really mean a democratic president, or a president who believes in democracy.

There is little difference in the democrats and republicans. I am referring to the new generation of both.

They are neo-cons at heart and owned by.

Good post. Cyber politics is a huge temptation to behave badly. I can't tell if I was rude before or after my association with The Fray. I can tell you that I have fined tuned my ability to insult people to a degree that I never had before The Fray. I am not very proud of it but its there as a fact of life. Good post. I wish I could be as nice a person as I hope to be, don't we all?

That felt good. Nice post.

Wonder what nastiness this thread will have devolved to, 24 hours from now. ;-\

... well, not so much.

It's hard to think with the television all full of commie turist guides dressed as monks and stuff.

"Internet one-upmanship - the last great game of our species."

mk

But then you already knew I agreed with that. I honestly don't get the drama over the either or--the absolute need to have one's candidate or the high way. I'd be voting for a shift whether it was Edwards, Giden Dodd or Richardson!

I just don't get the insistence on having one's way at the expense of the macro issues.

But then, young children are a marvelous antidote to self absorption.

Good to see you posting in old form. How's tricks?

.

Interesting...the more I see and hear Barack Obama, the more I despise him.

Everytime I hear a lame excuse for, or a justification for his racist behavior, by some Liberal on this board, the more I distrust Obama and the whackos who support him.

I don't care for Hillary but those who support her and want her to be president have a legitimate right to their opinions and to support a candidate they view as an acceptable alternative to the status quo.

Those who support Barack Obama are not Americans....they are enemies of the United States, less interested in hope or change than they are in destroying this country. This man is a racist hate-monger after the black heart of his phony pastor, Jeremiah Wright.

You are snakes, those of you who have the audacity to even suggest that this man is a valid candidate for President of the United States. He is not...he is a dangerous subversive who will subvert our constitution and bring chaos to our streets.

If he is elected, you can only hope that he will be appreciative enough of your support to kill you first.

Jack

It is a place where people dare say things to one another they wouldn't dream of saying to them face to face, even under the most trying of circumstances.

This divisive Democratic campaign has just turned the decibel level up a notch or two s'all.

[And make no mistake, it is the Clintonistas who started this whole brouhaha, It's ALL their fault - Who could have dreamed they would be such poor loosers?] (smile)

You hit the nail on the head. I can't believe some of the posts I've read. No one can say which candidate they prefer without being called some sort of traitor. You're one of the few (I can count them on one hand) who knows how to "agree to disagree." I thank you for that.

Khentkawes

I think you neatly summed it up. Unfortunately, there is a Drama Queen element here--which applies mainly to females, but also infects some males. I don't think Fraysters are representative of the American electorate as a whole, which is less black and white, more grey. The one thing the Fray does accurately represent is the confusion and resentment of the people. It is no surprise that tempers are flaring at a time when both a woman and a minority are seriously in the running for the first time. Human nature is for the oppressed to hate the competitor more than the overloard--something well understood by the British colonialists.

... this group more closely matches our mood.

God, however you understand her/him, bless us, every one.