Let's make it available to everyone. As a woman in my twenties, I find it hard to have respect for the idea of marriage, because it doesn't seem to have any bearing on whether people stay committed to each other. I see single-sex couples who are barred from getting married staying together for life, and I see people my own age who have already gotten divorced. I don't see a reason to get married, other than to throw an expensive party. The only sound argument would be that marriage gives you certain legal advantages, and I think I would feel guilty taking advantage of something like that if my friends aren't allowed to just because they're gay.

kellekms:

As a woman in my twenties.............I don't see a reason to get married, other than to throw an expensive party.

If you truly believe this, then you obviously haven't been married. A true marriage unifies the husband and wife, and makes both of you stronger because of it. That's been my experience, as well as that of many of my friends. If you choose not to get married because your gay friends can't marry, then it is your loss. Marriage can be truly wonderful.

As for the expensive party, we had a delightful wedding reception, but the best part of our wedding day was by far the ceremony - it was meaningful, amazing, and definitely NOT your typical 10 or 15 minute afterthought. You can often judge how strong a marriage will be by how much thought the bride and groom put into their wedding ceremony. And I say that as a wedding coordinator who has seen more than a few...

Brdngr:

kellekms:

As a woman in my twenties.............I don't see a reason to get married, other than to throw an expensive party.

If you truly believe this, then you obviously haven't been married. A true marriage unifies the husband and wife, and makes both of you stronger because of it. That's been my experience, as well as that of many of my friends. If you choose not to get married because your gay friends can't marry, then it is your loss. Marriage can be truly wonderful.

As for the expensive party, we had a delightful wedding reception, but the best part of our wedding day was by far the ceremony - it was meaningful, amazing, and definitely NOT your typical 10 or 15 minute afterthought. You can often judge how strong a marriage will be by how much thought the bride and groom put into their wedding ceremony. And I say that as a wedding coordinator who has seen more than a few...

Hmm, I disagree. I've never been one for long ceremonies of any kind, so ours will be more of the short-and-sweet variety. As a comparison, I've been bored as hell at every graduation I've been involved in, but that doesn't mean I don't still care about the degree.

Besides that, I totally agree with you. And if the OP seriously thinks that legalizing gay marriage is going to make heterosexual couples take it more seriously, chances are she'll be proved wrong within a few years. Whenever gay marriage is legalized, I'll bet you a hundred million dollars the straight divorce rate doesn't go down.

she was making a point about the hypocrisy in how people think about marriage.

Brdngr, thanks for the full disclosure. The fact that you're a wedding planner indicates a bias towards marriage even if the rest of your statement didn't. If you think that you can't have a committed and unified relationship without standing in front of a justice of the peace, then you just haven't been in a committed and unified relationship without being married. seriously, i'm not faulting you or your views on marriage, but your shortsightedness in thinking that one causes the other. Marriage does not make a relationship unified. If you found that, it was probably because you had a good relationship to start with. And i don't see how you can not see the difference in this day and age where all kinds of married folks have simply AWFUL relationships. because they were awful to begin with.

The article cites evidence that children of married couples are typically much better off, in all sorts of ways, than children of single mothers.

Of course, almost anyone can cite anecdotal examples of an acquaintance, relative or someone whose example goes against this.

But that does absolutely nothing to contradict the underlying point.

kellekms:

Let's make it available to everyone. As a woman in my twenties, I find it hard to have respect for the idea of marriage, because it doesn't seem to have any bearing on whether people stay committed to each other. I see single-sex couples who are barred from getting married staying together for life, and I see people my own age who have already gotten divorced. I don't see a reason to get married, other than to throw an expensive party. The only sound argument would be that marriage gives you certain legal advantages, and I think I would feel guilty taking advantage of something like that if my friends aren't allowed to just because they're gay.

The status of gay marriage has nothing to do with the successes and failures of straight marriages. Nothing whatsoever. Legalizing gay marriage won't wreck straight marriages, but the reverse is also true......keeping gay marriage illegal doesn't undermine straight marriage either.

it was a fallacious argument that people keep making not to actually have a debate on a strawman issue, but to make a point about how silly people freaking over the idea of gay marriage is... the top posters statement was the equivalent to Brangelina making the statement that they wouldn't marry until "everyone" could. no biggie.

codex,

the reason the anecdotal evidence that everyone is providing is important is because studies like this are inherently flawed yet people use them as reasons to decry individual's lifestyles and to make societal change that may not be warranted or effective. Studies and statistics can be good tools if they are kept in context and specific in their usage. That is not how we do things in this country, though (if indeed anywhere).

Here, a study comes out, the media and certain lobbyist groups inflate and stretch the "facts" and stats for their own agenda, and the general population believes whatever the media tells them to. They then use this as an excuse to come to places like the Fray and accuse everyone of ruining their kids. And then they do it to people they know in their lives, and to people they meet on the street.

Personally, i think it's most important to have engaged, communicative, and supportive folks in a child's life. It doesn't have to be a parent, but ideally it would be an adult. People are raised by people other than their two parents all the time due to circumstances other than getting knocked up at 15. Death, illness, incarceration, etc.. are all things that might lead to someone other than the birth parent raising the child. Many children in what some would consider "at-risk" circumstances turn out fine. I would argue that the causality is not two parents, but the kind of parenting i described in the first sentence of this paragraph. To determine whether my hypothesis is true (and i'm sure i'm not the only one who thinks this way), one would have to a more in-depth study than they have done and maybe than they are capable of. Although, to some of us it's obvious and common sense.

I know a lot of folks are saying things like "i work with kids and i see, blah blah blah". but just because you see two parents and what seems to be a good family dynamic doesn't mean it's because of the fact that there are two parents. it could be because individually they are good parents already. or it could be because they communicate well enough with each other (hence the marriage working) that it means they are also effective communicators with their child. There are so many variables in child rearing. But the stable elements in good familial relationships seem to be good communication and adequate parental support- whether it be from having more than one parent or friends and family who support.

Gee, kellekms! We are all so glad it worked out for you. Where is this wonderful Utopia with perfect men! I bet there is a little more reality to it than that.

You said, "You can often judge how strong a marriage will be by how much thought the bride and groom put into their wedding ceremony."

I find that completely untrue. In fact, it's been my observation that often couples will spend entirely too much time planning a ceremony and not enough time working on (the often glaring problems in) their marriage. People seem to forget, by and large, that all it takes to be legally married is the legal part, i.e. getting it documented by a justice of the peace. Marriage is a spiritual contract between a man and a woman, ordained by God, and the stress of a (useless) ceremony can take away from the true meaning of the day! You spend a lot of money, buy a dress you'll only wear once, deal with the politics of who to invite and whatnot, keep part of your mind on whether or not things are or will continue going smoothly...

It's the marriage that's the important part, not the wedding.

The wedding should never be the best or most important day in a couple's life, though maybe the best one up to that point. In any case, may all the years of your lives (you and your husband) be happy. Being married is AWESOME and I love every millisecond of it. :)

They say the number one reason for divorce is financial troubles, so why do so many couples insist on starting their marraige out with a 20, 30 or 40 thousand dollar debt? The average wedding costs about $30,000 nowadays.