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The Mental Health of our Troops------------
by bigdaddy5
when they get home has always been a issue with me,when Bush decided to attack Iraq five years ago I remember posting a post predicting that the troops being sent over to fight this oil war would come back home either dead or crazy as a bed bug.Sometimes I just hate to be right!
Re: The Mental Health of our Troops------------
by Rob1

I can only say that I wish there was more support for them when they come home. I stll struggle with my own demons from the past at times.

One does have to want to come back though, and sometimes some just can't mange to. Sometimes I think I never left the bush. I know that I left the best part of myself in the bush though. Certain things just change you forever.

Support the war of not, pray for the troops. For some ther nighmare will never end.

War is never a good thing.

Re: The Mental Health of our Troops------------
by unrbug

So why not search for diplomacy with Iran. I believe we are the trigger happy nation.

The suicide rate is high. maybe the highest ....

Re: The Mental Health of our Troops------------
by Rob1

Unebug, you can't deal with zealots.

When in doubt, kill.

Sorry to sound so cynical, but I have blood on my hands.

And it needed to be there.

It takes two sides to make peace. Otherwise, you are just going to live in bondage.

A sad, but true, fact of life.

Re: The Mental Health of our Troops------------
by tsukuhara@hotmail.com


I take it Bigdaddy has recovered from the verbal gauntlet thrown up in the the Intruders shot dead thread?

Hadn't been back since then. I guess he is ready for more.

The Iranians are not interested in meaningful negotiation.

Re: The Mental Health of our Troops------------
by Rob1

Bigdaddy can handle himself alright. I think he's just found somethig more interesting than the Fray to occupy his time.

As for me, I'm just an old married man. Anything the wife tells me, I've probably already heard a thousand times, such as cut your hair, shave your beard, you damned middle-aged hippie, I want some, pay some attention to me, you love politics and your guitars more than you love me, quit fliting with Unebug ( teasingly, she's spoken to Unebug before and likes her ) etc.

This board a pleasant diversion for me.

Bigdaddy just got his groove on right now.

Re: The Mental Health of our Troops------------
by tsukuhara@hotmail.com

About that facial hair Rob. I guess she has mixed feelings.

What does she really think about it?

LOL

I'm growing, ahem I have grown a Fu Manchu. Sometimes I have to remind myself it is facial hair, and that I do not have have a snatch on my face.

Re: The Mental Health of our Troops------------
by Rob1

My wife likes me short-haired and clean shaven. She says the hair hides my pretty face. I told her that at 57, my face was not all that pretty any more, but she seems to disagree. And women have a tendency to pay far more attention to me when I'm cleaned up, which she also does not like.

In short, I'm damned if I do, and damned if I don't. But that's marriage for you anyway. In my natural state, outside of a few females who seem to like long hair and beards, I seldom get a glance, but let me clean up and it's "I don't like the way that bitch is looking at you".

Well, I do, but that's just a little boost to the ego, and nothing more. I don't cheat, and I don't even encourage the looks, but I can't see being unfriendly either if an attractive red head or brunette wants to come up and start a conversation.

Since I married a blond, I tend to avoid them.

I told my wife that she spoiled me for other women. She took it as a compliment, but I did not finish the thought...

All women are a pain in the ass.

Regarding the reference to the beard, I will digress.

Re: The Mental Health of our Troops------------
by unrbug
aside from a snitch on Tsu face I think we have to work for fairness; then we can have peace. The pilots were Saudis but we do not ttack Saudi Arabia because the Princes have their hands in Bush's pockets or is it the other way around? As it is; it is just one big Middle East Party that Bush and Cheney have created. It gives the Pentagon boys something to do ; the Industrialist make money making bombs and helicopters, The guys in the VA will be busy . THERE ARE MORE JOBS AT HOME> Senators are happy because of the money going to their states. No,, too bad ;there has to be a downside of death and mental turmoil. The men of the middle east now have a purpose; they are united against us. I guess we will just let it play itself out. We started something when we pumped billions into Afghanistan so the Russians would have their Vietnam.. Are we going to have our second Vietnam. People have a right to fight for their land and their oil. The people are speaking and negotiating for their rights. The world is watching.
Re: The Mental Health of our Troops------------
by A155MM

Don't be so hard on yourself pissandmoandaddy; I haven't seen you be right about anything yet.

As far as your predictions about the troops; anyone with a sixth grade education could have made that prediction without fear of being wrong.

If you must congratulate yourself on something though, feel good that you brought home a fictitious son alive and in good spirits so that you don't have to be involved in one of those messy funerals or hospital visits.

You could also save some of the people on this board a certain amount of disgust by not acting as if you really care about vets or what happens to them. You're too wrapped up in your own personality cult to spare any thought for those with actual wounds or families who have experienced a real life loss.

unebug
by tsukuhara@hotmail.com

<<<The pilots were Saudis but we do not ttack Saudi Arabia because the Princes have their hands in Bush's pockets or is it the other way around?>>>

Your right on that one.

Forget us playing pocket pool with the Saudis, infact I'd say America has it's mouth on King Saud's co**.

The pilots came from alot of places Unebug, and I have no problem with us doing as Ann Coulter says minus the religous conversion in said countries.

All of them.

And the fuck the Palestinians too, if they were really open to negotiate the Israelis would gladly fork over land with assurances that they would reign in terrorists.

But they won't police their own, they expect Israel to fork over the land any way and allow terrorists to run amok.

Something similar happens in this country. Our leaders think they should get the carrot before the stick.

Shut down the border, then we'll talk business. They seem to think an amnesty first, and then we'll talk tough about shutting down that border.

But we have this never ending soap opera where the Palestinians claim victimhood when in reality they make the Jenna Six look like "don't tase me bro".

Just slaughter every living thing higher than a wagon wheel.

And pocket the oil.

As for your military industrial complex Unebug? You know weapon systems, tanks, planes all the shit that "industrialists" make money off of.

We don't need all of that shit unebug, but that is the alternative.

The alternative that is to using nukes. Nothing gets the message across like broiling a couple of million saps at the turn of a key, and push of a button.

Who is fighting for what? Our presence "over there" is actually welcome to responsibly minded folks.

They know damn well things have improved(maybe not in Afghanistan), but if the Gringos packed their shit and went home they would have to endure another anarchy ran by criminals and Wahabbis in Iraq.

We aren't trigger happy enough
by tsukuhara@hotmail.com

<<<I believe we are the trigger happy nation.>>>

That couldn't be further from the truth. Had that been the case we would have gone to war after the Romanian oil rig seizure or the couple instances of the Iranians snatching uniformed allied sailors and threatening to charge them as spies.

But we did nothing, and yet we are trigger happy?

But it does appear we have given Al Queda in Iraq an ass kicking.

Re: We aren't trigger happy enough
by unrbug

I do not believe all that you said. The vast majority of the pilots came from Saudi Arabia I am pretty sure.

In public relations we are loosing in Iraq. I wonder how much Bush is bending to their will. Right now the rules for oil I believe are going back to the way Saddam had them.

You were right unebug, but
by tsukuhara@hotmail.com

What does it matter?

I might be off, give or take, but by my count 15 from the Saudi Kingdom, 2 from the United Arab Emirates, one from Lebanon, and one from Egypt.

We are losing in Iraq?

General Petraeus finished behind Vladimir Putin for the Time man of the year.

Probably should have been his year.

Maybe next year who knows.

Who gives a shit?

Re: The Mental Health of our Troops------------
by Mary Neal
Rob, I read your post. Thank you for highlighting the problems facing many of our toops who will return from battlefields with post traumatic stress disorder and brain damaged from war wounds. Unfortunately, America's present system of dealing with mentally ill citizens leads thousands on a road to homelessness, jail, and death. My brother, Larry Neal, was never a soldier, although that is exactly what he most wanted to be. Unfortunately, Larry was mentally ill from his childhood and spent 20 years as an in-patient in a mental institution for his acute mental illness. When dismissed from the mental institutions, Larry and many thousands of other formerly institutionalized patients became subject to the sames laws as ordinary citizens, and subsequently, approximately 30% of America's prison population is now comprised of mentally ill persons. (See <link> We need to have better waiting for our returning troops, Rob, than homelessness, jail, and death. I know how undervalued our mentally ill citizens' rights are Rob. Mine is the only American family of the 21st Century to have a family member secretly arrested and his corpse returned to his family without any explanation, excuse, apology, arrest records, inquest, or official investigation. We were denied any of these. We are currently engaged in a legal battle to get "dog justice" for Larry, because he was at least as important as Michael Vick's dogs and his death also deserves investigation. Larry's family cannot say whether we are denied due process of law because Larry was indigent, African American, or disabled -- or whether it is because of the nature of his disability (mental illness). Sadly, Larry’s story is not unique; the mentally ill in America suffer many hardships resulting from inadequate or no care. Thousands of chronically mentally ill Americans who cannot orient themselves into society are jailed, homeless, or warehoused in substandard hospitals where many die each year. Larry was a mentally ill heart patient who was secretly arrested in mid-July 2003 and incarcerated until his fatal heart attack on August 1, 2003. For the 18 days of Larry's detainment in Shelby County Jail, Memphis, TN, on some misdemeanor connected with his mental disability, his family and social worker searched for Larry as a missing person. The jail falsely and repeatedly reported that neither Larry nor anyone meeting his physical description was detained in that facility. As an unidentified inmate, Larry presumably did not receive his vital prescription heart and psychiatric drugs. Upon Larry’s death, by Larry’s elderly, grieving mother contracted with The Cochran Firm to bring a wrongful death suit against the jail and negligence suits against the State of Tennessee and Larry’s final care home. However, the managing partner of The Cochran Firm’s Memphis office, Julian Bolton, was actually a 20+year member of the Shelby County Commissioner, the entity that owns and operates the jail where Larry died. In an undisclosed conflict of interest, that law firm apparently kept Larry’s wrongful death case on its shelves inactive for the next 10.5 months while the Tennessee statute of limitations ran. Suit is pending against Cochran in USDC, Northern Dist. of GA, 1:07-cv-1935. Subsequently, for over four years, Larry’s family has been denied access to any official records regarding Larry’s fatal arrest except a partial copy of his autopsy report sent via fax and his death certificate, which is particularly disturbing since the jail was under federal overview at the time of Larry’s death. My family is working to establish a new organization to advocate for the incarcerated mentally ill: Assistance to the Incarcerated Mentally Ill ("AIMI"). Presently, only the mentally ill who seek and/or willingly accept psychiatric treatment are serviced or hospitalized, unless or until patients are deemed by authorities to be a danger to themselves or others. People who are too sick to recognize their own psychosis are left largely to their own devices. Here is a secret we learned during years of visiting Larry in mental institutions and having met many sick patients: Many acutely mentally ill people simply do not know/believe/accept that they are sick. Ironically, the movement to deinstitutionalize the mentally ill in America was led for the most part by ex psychiatric patients who had themselves been institutionalized. There was a time when even people suffering epilepsy or nervous breakdown were institutionalized. Rejoining society obviously worked well for those who were capable of the self-discipline and presence of mind to launch this movement, many of whom went on to pursue psychiatric careers after release from asylums. But deinstitutionalization was a tragic development for people like Larry and thousands of other sick people presently incarcerated, having only swapped hospital care for jail cells. That is why this mental health system based on voluntary treatment has failed and our humanitarian decision of the 1970’s to deinstitutionalize the mentally ill has resulted in a growing prison population of mentally ill detainees. How humane is jailing sick people? Other side-effects of our “patients in charge” mental health system are overcrowded jails, an overtaxed criminal justice system, increasing homelessness, and a more dangerous society. Both the Texas woman who drowned her five children and the Virginia Tech student who killed 32 people during a violent rampage were mental patients who needed better treatment and control. We must free our nation’s law enforcement to get back to the business of fighting crime rather than acting as psychiatric caretakers. Rob, your post gives new meaning to the phrase "support our troops." Our organization not only seeks to support our troops who, many of whom will return home with mental dysfunction due to the war, but we also want to support all of our brave American troops by upholding the ideals for which they fight: the idea that all Americans deserve equal protection under the law. Mentally ill people who are arrested without a clear conception of what the criminal charges are against them and who are too sick to understand their Miranda rights should be hospitalized, not jailed. Help AIMI to end the practice of closing America's mental institutions and replacing hospital beds with jail cells. Help AIMI advocate for increased access to mental health care for all Americans.
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