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Amar is Extremely Mistaken
by San

Whoever wrote that sidebar was very wrong.

" At the founding, the core connotation of the phrase "bear arms" was military."

No.

No.

No.

Clearly, it was an armed populace was important to ensuring the nation was proper. Security of a free state FROM ITSELF is what the Amendment reads. Did you not understand that the Founding Fathers feared a corrupt, powerful, state hurting its people more than an invader? I sure did, as did they.

The people have guns because the government is to fear and respect the people. Remember when Jefferson said that rebellion was good for Democracy every now and then? Well, that was an armed rebellion he was speaking of. It wasn't a military rebellion. It was the people joining together, organized, and having their own weapons while NOT being under the control of a tyrannical state.

Militias were NOT regulated by states. Militias were NOT military units. Militias were common citizens, peasants, and a well regulated militia means one in which the people are able to form into a group with weapons, which means that a government telling who and who cannot be in the militia IS violated the second amendment.

The National Guard is not a militia. The US Army is not a militia. Common people with their own weapons are.

Minute men were private citizens, not regulated by the government. Please, before you attempt to write a news article, read a damn history book.

Re: Amar is Extremely Mistaken
by einhverfr
Arming the people was required for civil defense forces, not necessarily against the state. Note that the American Revolution didn't exist in a vacuum. It occurred right after the French and Indian war. Furthermore, the real fear was that European powers were going to pick us off one state at a time.

However, you can't have a well-regulated militia, where people furnish their own weapons unless people can own weapons. Hence there is an inherent personal right in the 2nd amendment at least as far as federal regulation goes.

Re: Amar is Extremely Mistaken
by San

"the real fear was that European powers were going to pick us off one state at a time."

Not according to the Declaration of Independence.

It was clear that the US wanted to be free of the Tyranny of George and be prey to the European states that... oh my! Became our allies immediately afterwards and wanted our goods!

England had a monopoly on trade, which required the US to send goods to England first. France wanted to cut out the middle man.

The citizens were kept from having guns and had to break into armories to gain weapons. The Founding Fathers thought that was a crime and made the Second Amendment to allow for revolution when necessary.

Re: Amar is Extremely Mistaken
by einhverfr
So many of the Founding Fathers who expressed a concern about being reconquered (primarily by England) were not sincere?
Re: Amar is Extremely Mistaken
by San
Einhverfr, your post only validates me - their only enemy was their former slave masters, and therefore, the intent was about tyrants, for they were afraid of the government that would allow such. They didn't expect the War of 1812, and such an invasion like that didn't come until after the second amendment.
Re: Amar is Extremely Mistaken
by Mark R. Kahler

Very well spoken and thought out!

Re: Amar is Extremely Mistaken
by einhverfr
Smithsonian Magazine had an interesting article on Maj. Gen. Nathanael Green some time ago. It is interesting in that it shows that a partial takeover was part of the plan from fairly early on in the Revolutionary war. In particular Cornwallis wasn't interested in making sure that the US didn't secede, but ration that if they did, they would be limited to New England.

I am not saying that distrust of the state wasn't a part of the 2nd Amendment (such distrust is a unique and essential element of American patriotism), but there was a major fear that European powers would try to pick off the colonies one at a time (something Washington spent a lot of time worrying about, and I don't think he was alone).

Re: Amar is Extremely Mistaken
by einhverfr
Just noting:

Regardless of this argument, Amar is still fundamentally mistaken. The Supreme Court has argued that the definition of a militia is that of large number of able-bodied civilians in a force against either lawlessness or invasion, and whose members furnish their own weapons.

Translation-- if nobody owns a weapon, you can't form a militia.

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