As a potential Prius buyer, my biggest question is what is it going to cost me to replace they batteries when the won't hold a charge anymore? I have heard upwards of $4000! Can anyone answer that? Secondly, how long can I expect the batteries to last before I take the financial hit?

What seems to be left out of all these discussions over the merits/disadvantages of hybrid vehicles is the long term impact of the hybrid's batteries. Specifically, with thousands upon thousands of hybrids being sold and automakers adding more hybrids to their model line, where will all the spent batteries go, after 4 or 5 years?

So - 1. is the industry geared up to handle this tremendous increase in spent batteries so there is no negative impact to our environment? 2. Do we know if the additional energy demands required to recycle these batteries will not be more than the gas being saved by hybrid technology?

Hi Oldgeek,

We've got a 2004 Prius with 70,000 miles on it. So far we've only had to change the oil and buy a set of tires. Thanks to regenerative braking, the brake pads are like new.

Batteries are performing like new also. However, here is a Toyota dealer that prices new batteries at $2,500 (<link>)

The Prius batteries don't weigh much more than the lead acid battery on the Hummer. They come in at 80 pounds or so. Also, the nickel and other "rare earth" metals in the battery are 80-99% recyclable. We have the same recycling problem with all the lead-acid batteries from decommissioned normal cars today that we will have with hybrids as they age. I read a paper that claimed recycling the NMH batteries was easier and less energy intensive than the lead acid batteries.

As one old geek to another, I say try it, you'll like it.

Nickel is a very valuable mineral; the batteries will be recycled. Toyota puts a $200 bounty on each battery, stamped on its case in big letters along with a phone number.

To put it in perspective, the cost and environmental consequences of recycling them are certainly less than the cost of mining them -- which itself pales in comparison to the cost of mining the other metals which go into a car, or the oil used to fuel it.

To replace all the batteries in a Prius might be expensive, but consider that: 1) they are guaranteed for well over 100k miles; 2) there are many documented instances of cars traveling over 200k on the same batteries; 3) the car is engineered specifically to extend the battery life (never either fully charges or drains the battery); and 4) Toyota has not yet had to replace a battery not covered by warranty for reasons other than accidents, even though it has been our for 10 years with thousands upon thousands sold. In short, the battery appears to be at least as reliable as the transmissions of many cars.

Oldgeek:

As a potential Prius buyer, my biggest question is what is it going to cost me to replace they batteries when the won't hold a charge anymore? I have heard upwards of $4000! Can anyone answer that? Secondly, how long can I expect the batteries to last before I take the financial hit?

What seems to be left out of all these discussions over the merits/disadvantages of hybrid vehicles is the long term impact of the hybrid's batteries. Specifically, with thousands upon thousands of hybrids being sold and automakers adding more hybrids to their model line, where will all the spent batteries go, after 4 or 5 years?
. . .

Hi,

I've know the owners of four, NHW11 (2001-2003) Prius who had batteries replaced. Two were under warranty the the third paid $3,600 to have Toyota do the work and the fourth paid me $35 for a replacement battery module to return his to service. Just the replacement battery, if you do the work yourself, lists for $2,300.

I bought one of the failed battery packs for $250. The owner had over 180,000 miles on the car and felt replacing the battery pack in 2008 and paying the $3,600 was a better deal than buying a replacement car. After all, every Prius has so many extras like electric doors, automatic transmission and a quality sound system that he couldn't find the equivalent car at that price.

In the failed, $250 battery pack, I found four battery modules marked with "NG" (no good) but only one of them had failed hard. Of the 10 battery modules already tested, most of them came in at 2.0-2.4 Ahr. The original owner was still getting excellent mileage before the one battery module failed out of the 38 so replacing just that failed module probably would have returned the car to service until the next one failed. That is what another owner in Florida did after I sold him a salvage battery module for $35.

I have been using a modification of patent 6,936,371 to refurbish the battery modules marked "NG." Except for the one with a failed cell, two of the "NG" modules have measured discharge capacities higher than the rated 6.5 Ahr and the third one just passed above 5.0 Ahr and continues to climb. It turns out that refurbishing these $60/each modules takes less than $5 in parts and labor. You can read up on my work in the Yahoogroup "Prius Technical Stuff."

I've had a chance to compare the battery modules from the NHW11 (2001-03) Prius versus one from an NHW20 (2004-current) and there have been substantial changes. The plastic shell is thicker and internal resistance is lower. In fact, there has been a steady improvement in the hybrid batteries so unless you have your heart set on a used, 2001-03 Prius, battery replacement is unlikely before an accident takes it away.

I have a second, full Prius battery pack bought from a salvage for $550. If you will check Ebay, you will find plenty of salvage batteries for very reasonable prices. In fact, salvage battery packs appear to more than meet the needs for replacement battery packs . . . they fail so seldom. Don't fear the battery but learn to live with a new technology.

Unlike oats and hay, gasoline can explode but we learned how to live with it. Batteries are just a fact of life, another technology, and like jet airplanes, better than what came before . . . much better than before.

BTW, I am getting over 52 MPG over 50,000 miles I put on my used, 2003 Prius. I added a 1 kW inverter and supplies emergency house power during outages burning as little gas as a Honda generatore. It also has a tow bar and a light-weight trailer for fetching plywood and other oversized loads as well as towing a jon boat for fishing. I paid $17,300 for it in Oct. 2005 and it has been a joy. The newer ones are even better.

So when I read of these nuts bashing Prius for false political reasons and all sorts of other nonsense, I smile and silently drive on down the road. Unlike them, I have left over gas money to spend on what I want and am glad they are slaves to the pump. Stupid people should be separated from their money and the sooner the better.

Bob Wilson