Kausfiles Special

SA, a question for you.

Boltlady — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 18:26:26 GMT

The people of the West Bank have not been firing rockets and yet their land continues to be taken over and killing continues in their country. Are you saying that the people of
Gaza should just be willing to live in a virtual cage with the barest minimum of sustenance to keep them alive?

Would that make it all better?

Oh yes, one more question. How is killing 30,000 chickens defending oneself?

Re: Controversial subject,adult discussion...yes,Virginia...

MasterJay — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 18:18:26 GMT

there is a base left in KFS...congratulations,folks.

I think this has been and will continue to be a "flashpoint" of discussion in here...sadly,because of the power of the Israeli lobby...it's going to be very difficult for our politicians to have a discussion of this level about this subject.

The Palestinians are always attacking Israel

SmartAss — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 18:15:59 GMT

The people of Israel have a right to defend themselves with every weapon they have. If Hamas cared about the Palestinians they would stop drawing fire into Gaza.

The_Watcher, as I mention in my response to MA

Boltlady — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 18:07:53 GMT

the 'growing pains' that Israel is experiencing are self induced. They've been bringing in people from other countries (mostly Russia) to expand their numbers. They pay them handsomely for it. It's so ironic that the majority of the Jews who live in Iran have turned down as much as $50K a piece to make that move because they're happy where they are.

MA re your comments about context...

Boltlady — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 18:03:40 GMT

The various groups that you've mentioned did in fact continue to fight back in any way they could while the takeover was ongoing. It wasn't a case of pay back but a case of trying to retain whatever they had. Yes, a century or two later they became complacent with what little they had left and no longer attack their oppressors. As The_Watcher pointed out, that seems to be the goal that the Israelis have.

The big problem is that the land grab is ongoing. The Israelis keep trying to claim that ALL of the land is theirs while the Palestinians have agreed to abide by the international laws and borders. Those laws keep getting broken by the Israelis because they don't feel like they pertain to them. They won't even identify their own border because they want to keep expanding it. In fact the Israelis have gone to great lengths to import Jews from other parts of the world because they're so afraid that the Arabs will out number them and they won't be able to maintain their status as a Jewish state.

People might try and compare the Israelis and the Palestinians as being equally guilty in the problems but the Israelis showed the world by their actions just what the Palestinians are up against. To say that it is disproportional is a vast understatement.

BTW did you know that there are actually 285,000 Israelis living in the illegal settlements in the West Bank and they are in the process of building more?

Re: An honest question if a reasonable answer is possible.

MaryAnne — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 17:25:20 GMT

Palestinians far out number birth rates and within 20 years they will be overwhelming in number.

After listening to an Arab speak respectfully yesterday about the problem,I was shocked to see Lanny Davis come on and go into almost a rage. I had always considered Lanny as sensible,but he kept using the word,"We," when speaking of Israel.You would not have known he was a citizen of the US.

I now see Lanny in a different light. He is Israel,not American.

Re: An honest question if a reasonable answer is possible.

The_Watcher — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 16:41:05 GMT

The best I can do for a response to your post is to point out the 'Iron Wall' strategy practiced for years against the Palestinians by the Zionists. Since 1948 the population of Israel has grown better than 10 times over what it was in 1948. Israel has recently stated that settlement construction must go on at all costs to accommodate it's growing population and they have no choice but to do just that.

I found an interesting read on how the Zionists tend to their growing pains without having to recognize the needs of millions of displaced Arabs. Actually it's much like using a shock collar to train a dog not to bark or leave the confines of an electronic enclosure. The Zionists also realize that a frightened dog once cornered or restrained will either attack or cower in a corner and submissively urinate. The latter is their goal.

All dogs who show the capacity to bite when cornered must be heavily controlled or completely destroyed. Cowering and letting loose the occasional submissive urination is ultimately the only means of survival they have left.

'Master Plan' of Annexation: Sharon hopes to finally fulfill his mentor's dream of utterly defeating the Palestinians and taking possession of the entire Land of Israel. In a famous article entitled "The Iron Wall," published in 1923, Ze'ev Jabotinsky, the founder of Revisionist Zionism who described his attitude towards the Arabs as one of "polite indifference," set forth the platform of the present National Unity Government. "Every indigenous people," he wrote, "will resist alien settlers as long as they see any hope of ridding themselves of the danger of foreign settlement. This is how the Arabs will behave and go on behaving so long as they possess a gleam of hope that they can prevent 'Palestine' from becoming the Land of Israel." The sole way to an agreement, then, is through the iron wall, that is to say, the establishment in Palestine of a force that will in no way be influenced by Arab pressure. . . . A voluntary agreement is unattainable. . . . We must either suspend our settlement efforts or continue them without paying attention to the mood of the natives. Settlement can thus develop under the protection of a force that is not dependent on the local population, behind an iron wall which they will be powerless to break down.

http://www.themodernreligion.com/jihad/despair.html

Re: There have been thousands of attacks against Israel

MaryAnne — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 16:23:07 GMT

Yes,Midwest.A good example of us being attacked and then going to Iraq to kill innocents who had nothing to do with the attack.

Yet the family of the attackers was swiftly moved out of the Country to spare them.

You are avoiding the question.

Re: There have been thousands of attacks against Israel

MWG — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 15:50:45 GMT

literally thousands.

No other country would be so restrained in their response.

Re: The closest you've come to an answer to my questions

MaryAnne — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 15:46:46 GMT

Let us put some of this discussion in context.

Native Americans were cheated out of their land by our ancesters.Does this mean they should go around the US blowing up buildings and killing innocents?

Black people have a long,sad history in this Country. Even the Irish,almost any group you can name. Should they all spend centuries in pay back,or should they try to make peace?

You have Leaders on both sides of the Israel/Palestenian situation bring forth the same sad argument every couple of years. When to do those Leaders grow up and try something different? It is obvious killing is not working.

The closest you've come to an answer to my questions

Boltlady — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 15:20:48 GMT

has been to repeat the very talking point that I mentioned that we've all already heard. Then you follow it up with another question.

I take that to mean that you don't have a reasonable answer. Thanks anyway.

Re: Hamas deliberately used civilians as human shields.

MWG — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 15:14:02 GMT

They wanted Israel to kill innocents.

So, who was responsible?

Re: How do you justify the attacks against Israel?

MWG — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 15:11:35 GMT

Or do you just overlook them?

Re: What you overlook

Boltlady — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 15:03:06 GMT

"the very small area and population that have endured those attacks. "

Do you realize that the town of Sderot was built on top of a razed Palestinian village? That notwithstanding, it does not explain how such widespread cruelty is justified.

Re: What you overlook

MaryAnne — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 14:58:53 GMT

Good to see you Midwest.

Do you think it is right for the Israel's to kill so many innocents in the name of killing the Leaders of a terrorist organization?

Of course you know I hate all wars.Most are brought on by Leaders who are bullies.Many of the Jewish people feel the same way I do.