Dear Prudence

Re: Latin lovers (and stranger things)

RMc2009 — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 21:13:04 GMT

Despite loads of people showing up and telling you that their partners have no problem with socializing with exes, or who socialize with their exes without cheating

Loads? I count three. And besides, people are more likely to respond to a message if they disagree with it.

This isn't really about "cheating"; no, I don't believe LW will suddenly get horizontal with Jose in full view of her fiance. It's about being polite, being kind, being respectful of your partner. Yes, there are folks who don't give a rip if their SO has slept with half the planet...and then there are people who do. If you're engaged to one, is it really that difficult to show a little consideration? Or are we all too busy being independent, politically correct, unemotional automotons?

Of course, you dismiss such people as being controlling, delusional, nasty and probably mean to kittens. Now who's being judgemental here?

Re: Latin lovers (and stranger things)

Kea — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:46:46 GMT

RMc2009, you're using the No True Scotsman fallacy. Despite loads of people showing up and telling you that their partners have no problem with socializing with exes, or who socialize with their exes without cheating, you dismiss everyone as either:

a) Naive
b) Delusional
c) Slutty
d) Dysfunctional
e) A freak of nature

But all "normal" people like you freak out at the mere sight of an ex. Sure, whatever.

At some point, all of us naive delusional slutty dysfunctional freaks of nature are going to outnumber you, and you're the one who's the exception to the rule. If you can't keep your dick in your pants, that's your problem, not ours.

Re: Latin lovers (and stranger things)

PhysicsGirl — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 17:10:00 GMT

RMc2009:
Congratulations, Kea: you beat the odds....For most people, though, having contact with ex-lovers is just asking for trouble.

Oh really? Care to quote the statistical source for your assertion? Or are you merely making the mistake of pluralizing ancedote? Many people I know have an ex in their life in some fashion. For the most part, it doesn't lead to trouble.

RMc2009:
It doesn't make you a controlling prick to want to limit your SO's contact with people they used to sleep with,

Trying to, well, control your SO's actions IS being controlling. In the case of the letter, the LW gave two perfectly acceptable options and her fiance wasn't interested in compromising by choosing either one. That's controlling. He's a prick because he thinks threatening to something deliberately hurtful during a disagreement with his fiancee is the proper course of action.

RMc2009:
and insisting that they "get over it" is unfair and rude.

It is unfair and rude to subject your significant others to your irrationality.

Re: Latin lovers (and stranger things)

PhysicsGirl — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 17:00:31 GMT

RMc2009:
Most people manage to function in a reasonable manner with an exe or two, and most people manage to deal with their significant others exes.
Sounds like you've had quite a few exes, and, judging from your dozens of other responses on this topic, you'll have quite a few more.

I doubt it. I've been married 5 years (we've been together for 7) and we're still going strong. We share very similar views when it comes to sexual morals and dealing with exes.

RMc2009:
It's one thing for your SO to have former lovers...it's quite another to have shoved in your face. Do you really not see the difference?

I've met a number of my husband's exes in social circumstances. I don't consider them being "shoved" in my face. It's not really a big deal if you view people as more than just whom they have sex with. He's also met a few of my exes as well, though I grew up 3k miles away from where we currenty live, and I'm eight years younger so the probability of encountering them is less. But, I accept that my husband had a past before we got together, and it includes other women that he ... *gasp* ... had sex with, and that since they are still friends with his friends, I will encounter them every once in a while.

I think the only time it was awkward was running into his previous ex in the bathroom at the Rocky Horror Picture show a few weeks after my husband had dumped her and started dating me....

RMc2009:
Nobody suddenly decides to "go back to being friends"; one of the two parties (usually the woman) makes the decision to stop having sex, and the other person has to abide by it.

Actually, I've encountered people where the decision to stop being in a romantic relationship was mutual, not to mention that it happened to me. In any case, even if the decision was completely one-sided it doesn't really change anything. Someone decided to end the romantic/sexual part of the relationship, and that doesn't happen on a whim. There are specific reasons why the relationship wasn't working.

I do find it a little amusing that you are poutingly like, "And the other person has to abide by it." Duh. If only one person wants to have sex and forces the other, there's a word for that.....

RMc2009:
If that's the case here, the fiance damn well better be on his guard.

Why? If she chose to stop having sex with this man before, why would she decide to start having sex with him again? The only thing that would worry me is if the only reason they broke up was that she moved away. Then the reason is distance, which is going to be shortly negated.

RMc2009:
It's very easy to be rational about it. If you consider sex to be roughly equivalent to flossing, sure. For some of us, it means more.

No, I find it very easy to be rational about those things which are important. To be irrational leads one to not making the best decisions, and that leads to regret.

RMc2009:
Nor does it change the fact that the fiance is being an unreasonable prick. Yeah. Gonna have a lot more exes before you're done, sweetheart.

You seem to feel that throwing a childish temper tantrum and threatening retaliation is an acceptable response to a disagreement with your significant other. That's fine, but such behavior is going to end your relationships whereas the opposite behvavior that I display will keep my marriage strong.

Re: Latin lovers (and stranger things)

Lovethedoggies — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 03:15:39 GMT

My husband and I run in very close social circles with my ex and his wife. (In fact, two mutual friends are getting married and we're both part of the wedding party.) While we don't talk beyond being polite and friendly in social situations, and sending each other clients (we're in similar fields and he's a genius at what he does) the whole looming "Like OMG we used to have sex" thing really only reared it's head for like 5 minutes the first post breakup encounter.

In fact, I run in close social circles with all of my exes! My best friend and maid of honor when I got married had a bday weekend getaway in Mexico and invited another of my exes. My fiance at the time was not there (he had to work) and he had no problem with us spending the time together. The girls and boys slept separately and *gasp* nothing happened!

If this guy's fiance wants to cheat on him, keeping her in a little glass box isn't going to stop anything. If they are going to be sharing their futures together he needs to give her more credit. Accusing her of wanting to plow any reasonable male isn't the way to go about it. And it's not like she's asking for permission to take moonlit walks on the beach alone or to put a hotel on their shared credit card! He's absolutely refusing to allow her to see him, even if himself or others are there. What does he think she's going to do, throw herself on the table and start dry humping in front of him? That's the part that makes me think he's very insecure. He needs to be okay with himself before attempting to build a life with someone else.

Re: Latin lovers (and stranger things)

SusanM — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 01:07:33 GMT

Yeah, calling names with no rational argument behind them is just boring. Plus, I've seen 4 year olds do it better than your attempt. I'm done with you now.

Re: Latin lovers (and stranger things)

RMc2009 — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 15:34:53 GMT

Obviously you have never been married.

Obviously you're an idiot.

Are divorced spouses exempt from your rule on this? Seems that exes might have to spend time together when kids are involved. Is that inconsiderate of the new SO in your opinion?

Focus, please. LW's latin lover isn't a former spouse and no kids are involved, so that's not the situation here. He is someone she's slept with, so for her to shove him into her fiance's face is nasty and rude. Frankly, someone who plays head games like that doesn't deserve one boyfriend, let alone two.

Re: Latin lovers (and stranger things)

RMc2009 — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 15:31:00 GMT

I'm starting to move past the anger at the stupidity of some of you folks and just feel sorry for you.

Ah, arrogance and ignorance, the stuff the Internet is built on.

So let me get this straight, Susan: let's say your husband or boyfriend (or whoever the poor bastard is) is plastering his hot ex-girlfriend in your face. Being the post-feminist, tough-as-nails, don't-take-no-crap-from-no-man type you are, you naturally feel not a quiver of jealousy, right?

If you say "yes" you're either:

(a) incredibly stupid;

(b) incredibly naive;

And after he finally dumps your sorry ass, well, you'll be alone, but at least you'll have your high horse to cling to.

Moron.

Re: Latin lovers (and stranger things)

SusanM — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:04:15 GMT

RMc2009:
Indeed...and insisting on hanging out with a former lover, even when your fiance is uncomfortable with it, is pretty ugly. Why shove the ex-flame into the face of the man you supposedly love and want to marry? Why?

Because people are more than just genitals. If you looked at the "former lover" as a fellow human being that brought a lot of joy into her life instead of a massive penis scheming to supplant you - you might see the "why" of the matter.

I'm starting to move past the anger at the stupidity of some of you folks and just feel sorry for you. The world must be a pretty bleak place if you can't see someone has a value beyond their crotch.

Re: Latin lovers (and stranger things)

Pink_House — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 21:49:38 GMT

RMc2009:
It's fascinating how certain letters become virtual Rohrshach tests, with everyone revealing their prejudices and projecting more than the guy who owns the local multiplex. "Sure, he/she says X, but they really mean Y! I've been through this, too! Bastard! Bitch! Republican!"

There's no doubt the guy is being a jerk, especially with his threat to dial up the denizens of his own Little Black Book. (This was more likely a reaction born of anger and defensiveness than actual threat, but still.) News flash: your sweetie is going to come in contact with other men, in myriad ways, usually innocent. (And if they're not completely innocent, doesn't she have a head on her shoulders? She's engaged to you, right?)

So far, I'm in complete agreement with you...

RMc2009:
But. An ex-lover (however brief the assignation) is different. Sleeping with someone changes the playing field

And here's where you lose me. Arguably having sex with someone does not make them a "lover" or at least not in the sense of having emotions involved. There's a huge distinction that needs to be made between a one-night stand, a short-term fling and a full-blown love affair.

RMc2009:
Sleeping with someone changes the playing field

Only when the people fall in love.

RMc2009:
God forbid anyone ever show signs of jealousy or possessiveness, or indeed any emotion at all. We're all too evolved for that nonsense, aren't we?

Actually, we just because a person has an emotion, doesn't mean that he/she has to display that emotion in public.

RMc2009:
Hell, everyone's sampled everybody's else's private parts in the Brave New World, so get with it, Grandpa!

Well, since we are no longer getting married at age 13 and dying in childbirth or of old age at 45 or 50, yes, most adults can be expected to have had multiple sex partners in lifetimes.

RMc2009:
The fact is, when you're committed to someone, you simply don't put yourself in situations when you're hanging out with people who have seen you naked. Period. And indeed, why would you?

Obviously you have never been married. Are divorced spouses exempt from your rule on this? Seems that exes might have to spend time together when kids are involved. Is that inconsiderate of the new SO in your opinion?

RMc2009:
Why wave a red flag in front of angry bull when you don't have to? To prove that you can? Geez.

What you don't seem to understand is that this couple broke up. Something didn't work or they would be together. Why is that so difficult to comprehend? I can't speak for men, but as far as women go, once the realtionship is over, we don't want to sleep with the guy again, no matter how hot he is. The only exception is when a woman is really horny and lonely, which means, when she is without a current SO.

Apparently men always want to and will readily have sex with any woman they have previously bedded whether or not that relationship ended badly and whether or not they are currently committed to another woman. Sadly, you make it sound like men would easily have sex again with a past sex partner even if they are romantically and sexually happy presently. Women don't do that.

Re: Latin lovers (and stranger things)

RMc2009 — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 21:43:25 GMT

Congratulations, Kea: you beat the odds. It's like the people who smoke all their lives and never get cancer, or drive insanely and never get into accidents: you lucked out. For most people, though, having contact with ex-lovers is just asking for trouble. It doesn't make you a controlling prick to want to limit your SO's contact with people they used to sleep with, and insisting that they "get over it" is unfair and rude.

Re: Latin lovers (and stranger things)

Kea — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 21:22:16 GMT

I've met my boyfriend's ex. He's in occasional contact with her via facebook, and when she was visiting from the UK where she now lives, we all went out for dinner. Yes, the thought "she's had sex with my boyfriend" did cross my mind, and it was awkward for about ten minutes, and then we started chatting and she was cool and I forgot all about the awkwardness. Besides, she's married now, and she and my boyfriend dated for a few months over a decade ago, when they were teenagers. So I've had an ex shoved in my face, and it wasn't a big hairy deal.

Plus, back in college he used to have mostly female friends. He was like their mascot or something. It didn't bother me that they were female. He even told me that he'd had a crush on one of them because she vaguely resembled Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but she rejected him. I didn't demand that he stop hanging out with her. Nope, the only thing that bothered me about his friends was that they smoked pot, and I was a straight edge.

My boyfriend doesn't mind that I'm still in contact with my ex, either. My ex is one of my best friends, and I talk to him online pretty much every week. My ex's wife doesn't seem to object to his friendship with me.

So how many exes have I had? One. And my boyfriend? Two. And we've been together for six years. I also do not consider sex to be "roughly equivalent to flossing". I personally find the idea of casual sex about as appealing as roadkill (though I don't give a toss if other people are into it, it's just not for me). So much for the hypothesis that everyone who is okay with their partner's exes is an amoral slut who can't hold a relationship together.

Re: Latin lovers (and stranger things)

RMc2009 — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:46:55 GMT

Most people manage to function in a reasonable manner with an exe or two, and most people manage to deal with their significant others exes.

Sounds like you've had quite a few exes, and, judging from your dozens of other responses on this topic, you'll have quite a few more.

If you're going to get uptight about people who've slept with your significant other, than you should only date virgins.

Don't be silly. It's one thing for your SO to have former lovers...it's quite another to have shoved in your face. Do you really not see the difference?

Then, they realized that they weren't suitable to being in a relationship and went back to being merely friends.

Love that passive voice. Nobody suddenly decides to "go back to being friends"; one of the two parties (usually the woman) makes the decision to stop having sex, and the other person has to abide by it. If that's the case here, the fiance damn well better be on his guard.

It's very easy to be rational about it.

If you consider sex to be roughly equivalent to flossing, sure. For some of us, it means more.

Nor does it change the fact that the fiance is being an unreasonable prick.

Yeah. Gonna have a lot more exes before you're done, sweetheart.

What a world.

Re: Latin lovers (and stranger things)

MiniverCheevy — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:31:14 GMT

I was in a situation similar to this awhile ago. In my case the "former lover" had been my friend continuously (and lover for only 2 weeks years previously), so my boyfriend just decided one day that it was no longer cool for my friend and I to hang out. Reading all these threads has helped me to understand much better where he was coming from. I still think he was absolutely wrong, but I see that some men attach an importance to sex that trumps most else. I'm put in my mind of something he said that I could never make heads or tails of at the time. "Every time he sees you he'll be picturing you naked." I suppose he believed exactly that because that's the reaction he had to the women he'd slept with.

Re: Latin lovers (and stranger things)

PhysicsGirl — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:53:38 GMT

RMc2009:
Doesn't look like any of those apply here. He's an ex-lover of his fiance suddenly dropping in and wanting to be shown around. Even if it's entirely innocent, it's kinda rude.

No, it's not rude at all. This fiance and this guy weren't just former lovers, they were also friends. Wanting to drop by and get some help from a friend when you're in a new country is perfectly reasonable and not rude at all. Now, if he states that he doesn't want her to bring her fiance around, then he'd be rude.

RMc2009:
And so on. It's really not a big deal. To you, maybe.

Most people manage to function in a reasonable manner with an exe or two, and most people manage to deal with their significant others exes.

RMc2009:
He slept with his fiance; it's hard for him to be rational about that.

Too many pronouns. Yes, the visitor slept with the LW. But that happened before she ever dated the fiance. If you're going to get uptight about people who've slept with your significant other, than you should only date virgins. And no, it's very easy to be rational about it. At one point in the past, his fiance and this man went from friendship to relationship. Then, they realized that they weren't suitable to being in a relationship and went back to being merely friends. It's very easy to be rational about it.

RMc2009:
Sorry, but for some of us, sex is still a big deal, not just a way to pass the time until you find somebody else.

Even if it is a big deal, so what? That doesn't change the fact that for whatever reason the relationship between the LW and this man didn't work out. Nor does it change the fact that the fiance is being an unreasonable prick.