Dear Prudence

Re: TruettC

Texwiz — Thu, 15 May 2008 20:24:37 GMT

TruettCollins:

It must be nice to live in such a protected world as you seem to live in.....
Come out on the streets some time.

This seems to imply that you've had a bad personal experience that informs your views. I'm genuinely sorry if you've had some bad things happen to you or someone you love because of the selfishness of someone who was supposed to be a parent.

I think everyone who is commenting on this thread would cheerfully agree that we have seen some disturbing things happen because of bad parenting, selfish parenting and in some cases, a complete lack of anything resembling parenting.

This is undeniably true. But that wasn't what we were talking about. We were talking about how the original letter writer and Prudie, (and apparently, you) concluded that a couple of evenings spent out with a friend at a bar, perhaps drinking a bit too much (I have no idea exactly what the writer means when she says they came home "drunk") meant that she was a selfish slut and a bad parent to boot.

We all agree that the woman was clearly inconsiderate of her mother's feelings, and could clearly use some better judgment than she was using, but a couple of nights of bar hopping does not make her the friggin' whore of Babylon.

What we're talking about is the rush to judgment, and nothing you've posted gives the impression that you are anything other than a moralizing, judgmental scold who has forgotten Jesus' instructions to "judge not, lest ye be judged." Remember that verse?

It's somewhere in there between "thou shalt not ever go to a bar after thou hast procreated" and "thou shalt not piss off thy mom." Oh, wait, I made up those last two verses. But not the first one.

Re: Mom as hotel

TruettCollins — Thu, 15 May 2008 13:07:25 GMT

"I doubt it would be many at all."

It must be nice to live in such a protected world as you seem to live in.....
Come out on the streets some time.

Re: Mom as hotel

IncogNeato — Thu, 15 May 2008 11:46:20 GMT

TruettCollins:

If a person it not willing to spend at least 18 years focusing on the good of a child that they bring into this world, then they should consider being sterilized.

Then the father should have stayed home to watch the kids while Mom went to see grandma. Who said only the mother is capable of "spend[ing] at least 18 years focusing on the good of a child"?

Re: Mom as hotel

IncogNeato — Thu, 15 May 2008 11:43:37 GMT

TruettCollins:

Only to those who see themselves as the center of the universe and above all. Do you ever perform a selfless act……doubtful.

Wow. I'm not sure which comment this ties to, but you really are over the deep end.

I'm a wife and a mother. I work, and have for most of my kids' lifetime. I dated after their father left us. I even remarried. On top of that, I had the audacity to return to school before remarrying, to ensure I could support the kids without the state's assistance. And then? THEN? I took time for myself now and then!

I went to movies with my husband. I went to professional organization meetings. I met my friends for dinner. I even (gasp!) volunteered at church some evenings, leaving my poor, neglected children in the church nursery for up to 2 HOURS at a time.

I know I can't possibly be forgiven for not putting my family first, foremost, and ONLY in my life, but that's just tough cookies I guess.

Re: Mom as hotel

glutton79 — Thu, 15 May 2008 05:41:59 GMT

TruettCollins:
A parent has plenty of time to themselves, during
school, etc......

ah, and for those of us who actually have something to do while the kid's at school, like a job? oh, I forgot, we're just terrible parents.

I don't know what your definition of "drunk" is, but my parents have been fairly regular wine-drinkers throughout my life, and both my sister and I managed to not become alcoholic screw-ups. I've probably seen them at least tipsy on several occasions, but never even noticed until I was old enough to drink with them.

anyway, by your reasoning, parents shouldn't have sex either, because any child who accidentally walked in on their parents would inevitably turn into a big trampy whore.

Re: Mom as hotel

PhysicsGirl — Thu, 15 May 2008 04:42:56 GMT

TruettCollins:
A child sees mom out drunk one time....decides hey if it's alright for mom it's alright for me.....only thing being that once is the one time the child dies of alcohol Poisoning or in an accident, or kills or cripples someone else in that accident.

If it were true that seeing your parents drink once was all that you needed to have major alcohol issues, just about everyone in the country would. Seriously, how many people claim, "I thought it was OK because I saw my mom get drunk this one time ten years ago!" after drunkenly causing a horrendous traffic accident? I doubt it would be many at all.

Re: Mom as hotel

PhysicsGirl — Thu, 15 May 2008 04:38:59 GMT

TruettCollins:
A parent has plenty of time to themselves, during school, etc......

LOL! You're obviously not a parent. I'm not either, but I know that my sisters and I kept my parents hopping. Since they both worked, they didn't get any down time when we were at school.

TruettCollins:
I never claimed anyone should be a June, that was your doing.

Oh come on. It was obvious what "sort" of women in the past you were thinking of.

Re: Mom as hotel

TruettCollins — Thu, 15 May 2008 03:45:07 GMT

A child sees mom out drunk one time....
decides hey if it's alright for mom it's
alright for me.....only thing being that once
is the one time the child dies of alcohol Poisoning or in an accident, or kills or cripples someone else in that accident.

Re: Mom as hotel

TruettCollins — Thu, 15 May 2008 03:40:04 GMT

All it takes to set the example for the children to follow is ONCE.......

Re: Mom as hotel

TruettCollins — Thu, 15 May 2008 03:38:53 GMT

A parent has plenty of time to themselves, during
school, etc......

I never claimed anyone should be a June, that
was your doing. GET AN EDUCATION>

Re: Mom as hotel

PhysicsGirl — Thu, 15 May 2008 01:33:55 GMT

TruettCollins:
You are the one who brought "June Cleaver" into the thread...not me....

I brought it up because you stated that, "Just one more example of why motherhood is not what it use to be. There was a time when the children came FIRST.....", as though there was some time in the past when motherhood was different. That's simply not the case. There were good mothers and bad mothers then just like there are now.

TruettCollins:
If a person it not willing to spend at least 18 years focusing on the good of a child that they bring into this world, then they should consider being sterilized.

You know what is good for a child? A happy, healthy, well-adjusted parent. To achieve this a parent does need to spend some time on themselves.

Re: Mom as hotel

glutton79 — Wed, 14 May 2008 23:09:53 GMT

TruettCollins:
Yea, I deal with them all the time. A lot of them simply following their parents example.

Well, we're all biased by our own experiences. All of the parents I've known have been pretty responsible people, so when I read letters like this, I tend to take them at face value and assume that the going-out really is occasional. If this were a regular occurrence, obviously I would agree that she's being selfish and setting a bad example for her children.

Re: Mom as hotel

TruettCollins — Wed, 14 May 2008 23:08:26 GMT

You are the one who brought "June Cleaver" into the thread...not me.... If a person it not willing to spend at least 18 years focusing on the good of a child that they bring into this world, then they should consider being sterilized.

Re: Mom as hotel

PhysicsGirl — Wed, 14 May 2008 22:57:01 GMT

TruettCollins:
What kind of example is this woman setting for her children, coming in drunk at all hours? I deal with teens that have had this example every day.

The key point phrase here is, "every day". Presumably the LW's daughter isn't doing this every day or the LW would have mentioned it. Going out once in a while when a reliable adult is available to watch the children is not a problem. Most adults do this and don't raise children who are raging alcoholics.

Re: Mom as hotel

PhysicsGirl — Wed, 14 May 2008 22:54:29 GMT

TruettCollins:
Only to those who see themselves as the center of the universe and above all.

My view of my place in the universe has nothing to do with history. The vision people have of a June Cleaver-esque time period simply isn't real. All it takes is looking at some socialogical studies.

No matter how selfless a person is, it is impossible for them to be selfless 24/7. Nor do I think that is healthy.

TruettCollins:
Do you ever perform a selfless act……doubtful.

Certainly I do. Not that my selfishness or selflessness is relevant in this discussion.