Books

Re: The truth hurts

Mmmmm — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:17:14 GMT

*** Indeed, including building and maintaining the world in which you live every day. ***

This from a guy who has no doubt spent his adult life living in his mother's basement.

Re: The truth hurts

financelaw — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:18:40 GMT

Hey Toria,

White American men like me are dating Asian or European women because they treat us with respect and consideration. White American women do not care about anything but themselves. It has nothing to do with submissiveness when dating an Asian. I could give a shit if a woman says I am wrong and wants to do something other than what I want -- any time of day or night. Hell,,I was brought up by a Depression-era white female with blue eyes and flaming redhead. NO ONE crossed my mom,,,she even scared the devil. When I was 14 yrs old, she sat me down and said this; Don't let any woman walk over you and they'll lie to get anythingthey want. Use the right head to pick your wife. She was a smart woman.

Re: The truth hurts

Junggai — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 23:31:34 GMT

Terrils:
No, I'm not.
If you wish to deny that there is a fetishization of Asian women as sexually pliant and submissive amongst many western men, feel free. The review, and the book, and many posters here, acknowledge that it is a reality. No one here, myself included, has suggested every interracial relationship, or every *fill in the blank* relationship, is necessarily fetishistic or exploitive.

I've challenged you to find proof for your assertions, and all you did was restate them. Thanks for the discussion.

As for conflating, yes I used it twice because it's accurate. The book, and especially the review, deals with European sexual expoitation of Asia. Other posters talk about why they like Asian women. You somehow draw the two together, again without proof.

I'm challenging your use of the word fetish, not the idea that some men objectify women, and have listed my reasons already. Feel free to ignore or engage with what I actually wrote, but I still contend that it's inaccurate and judgmental.

Re: The truth hurts

Terrils — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 20:39:07 GMT

Junggai:

Sorry, Toria, she's not calling it like it is. She's conflating sexual exploitation with what she calls "fetishism," a term that completely clouds the issues at hand like squid ink.

Yes, guys who thumb their noses at white women in these threads while extolling the virtues of Asian women are indeed pathetic. I wouldn't call them fetishists, though.

[I would wonder if they've actually had any relationships at all, because I've never met a submissive woman period, Asian or White.]

You're fond of the word conflating, but again, you're incorrect. I might reasonably argue that there is an element of sexual exploitation in any situation where person A fetishizes person B (that is, to my mind, reducing them to stereotypical traits based on appearance or race or whatever); I wouldn't necessarily argue that a person with a sexual fetish is an active exploiter. And certainly you can exploit a person, sexually or otherwise, without fetishizing them.

Re: The truth hurts

Terrils — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 20:34:08 GMT

Junggai:

Terrils, what point are you trying to make? You've posted in several threads here, and appear to be conflating the very real sexual exploitation in Asia with the practice of white men who have relationships with Asian women.

No, I'm not.

If you wish to deny that there is a fetishization of Asian women as sexually pliant and submissive amongst many western men, feel free. The review, and the book, and many posters here, acknowledge that it is a reality. No one here, myself included, has suggested every interracial relationship, or every *fill in the blank* relationship, is necessarily fetishistic or exploitive.

Re: The truth hurts

financelaw — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 17:59:33 GMT

Wow deirwin you said that perfectly. My European fiancee is part Vietnamese and brought up in an Asian household. Her perspective on life is what you said, "simply to enjoy (her)themselves and express (her)themselves more freely. And her perception of sex is a 180 compared to American women. She loves it,,,even after an argument. She doesn't use it as a power or struggle to used against me. "A struggle that must be won or fought to a draw" and her concept of sex is to use it as a "pleasurable play between consenting adults". I get laid 3 to 5 times a week and we've been dating over 5 years. And she knows that I would never cheat on her and why would I with the great sex I'm getting.

Re: The truth hurts

zeleny — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 17:14:44 GMT

Is it politically correct to eschew women who are stupid and lazy? If so, is it politically correct to observe that on the average, white women are stupider and lazier than asians?

Re: The truth hurts

Pmbster — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 10:06:31 GMT

Er. More like, "It's sexism keeping her down!" Than just plain "It's sexist!"

Adjust adjust...

Re: The truth hurts

Pmbster — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 10:02:04 GMT

Junggai:
Sorry, Toria, she's not calling it like it is. She's conflating sexual exploitation with what she calls "fetishism," a term that completely clouds the issues at hand like squid ink.

Yes, guys who thumb their noses at white women in these threads while extolling the virtues of Asian women are indeed pathetic. I wouldn't call them fetishists, though.

[I would wonder if they've actually had any relationships at all, because I've never met a submissive woman period, Asian or White.]

She is reacting specifically to those posts that draw her ire, and essentially responding in kind, as are you. It shows where you are at as well as where they are at.

I tend to do this a hell of a lot myself, being quite tired of not being able to get through more than a paragraph or so in XX blog posts or articles without having misogyny thrown in my face. (Here's some poor schlub of a guy trying to climb in life from position number 3 to position number 7. "The poor schlub." Here's some poor schlub of a girl trying to climb in life from position number 3 to position number 7. "It's sexist! And how dare you call her a 'schlub'!!")

Anyway.

Re: The truth hurts

A Dude — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 00:50:14 GMT

No, some American women are egotistical and spoiled. It has nothing to do with being submissive.

Your comment is like some asshole guy dissing the woman not attracted to him by claiming that she couldn't deal with his honesty or strong opinions or something. No, he was just an ass.

Re: The truth hurts

Junggai — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 00:41:59 GMT

Sorry, Toria, she's not calling it like it is. She's conflating sexual exploitation with what she calls "fetishism," a term that completely clouds the issues at hand like squid ink.

Yes, guys who thumb their noses at white women in these threads while extolling the virtues of Asian women are indeed pathetic. I wouldn't call them fetishists, though.

[I would wonder if they've actually had any relationships at all, because I've never met a submissive woman period, Asian or White.]

Re: The truth hurts

deirwin — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 00:32:13 GMT

Interesting perspective. It is of course a fine line between "less egotistical" and "submissive." In my experience (lived in Asia, dated Asians all over the world) many Asian women are not submissive as much as less repressed. The women I dated over there were definitely NOT submitting to anything. They simply "seemed" to enjoy themselves and express themselves more freely. Of course that is a statistically irrelevant sample, but I think there are enough men who feel this way to suggest a kernel of truth. I used to think of it in terms that western women (actually American women) view sex as a power struggle that must be won or fought to a draw, while Asians (and frankly, most Europeans, Aussies and even Canadians) view it as pleasurable play between consenting adults. IT may not be true, but it is the way to bet.

Also, an noboby seems to point this out, Asiam women dress better, are thinner and look after thier apperance much much more than American women. Ride the subway in New York or Boston, or walk the streets of San Francisco or Philly. It is pretty clear. Is this exploitation? You decide. But I am guessing that most women prefer a man who takes care of himself, dresses well and looks good. So perhaps we are all exploiting each other.

In any event. I can't get over the feeling that American women are pissed that another group of women is stealing their men by better looking and better in bed. I would point out the incredibly education many of them posess, but that is not what we are really talking about is it?

For what it is worth, my wife is Asian, she has an MBA from an Ivy league school, and is definitely not submissive in any way. Oh, and she is a fox.

Re: The truth hurts

Toria — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 00:01:55 GMT

Terrils is right. Most of the guys in these threads talking about how they only date Asian women go on and on about how it's because American women are too "egotistical" (code for: not submissive enough).

Don't get mad at Terrils for calling it like it is. Men who date Asians because they are pretty aren't fetishizing them. Men who only date Asian women because they are intimidated by Caucasian women but think Asians are submissive, on the other hand, are. And lots of guys here have gone out of their way to state out-and-out that's what they are doing.

Re: The truth hurts

Junggai — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:42:40 GMT

Terrils, what point are you trying to make? You've posted in several threads here, and appear to be conflating the very real sexual exploitation in Asia with the practice of white men who have relationships with Asian women.

Am I wrong? There has been no one in these threads affirming "the practice of white men sexually exploiting Asian women." Find me an example and I'll concede the point.

And I know you're not the only person who uses the term, but I ask you to take an honest look at the term "fetishization." No one talks about a white woman having a "Latin fetish," or a black man having a "white fetish." Fetishism is about unhealthy obsession with objects, and the assumption in this usage is that white men somehow see Asian women as objects. This is very bad faith, very ugly, and impossible to prove.

Men who like Asian women -- just like white women who like Latin men, there are plenty of them! -- typically are attracted to certain physical characteristics, as well as a particular range of personal styles and personality traits, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that on its own.

Re: The truth hurts

Robert Lee — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:09:50 GMT

Indeed, including building and maintaining the world in which you live every day.