Jurisprudence

Re: Sorry . . .

the true conservative — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:37:43 GMT

Prison remains the one situation in which slavery is still legal. And it is still commonly used as such.

What I'm talking about is requiring people to work for pay as a condition of their not being incarcerated, and then using a portion of their income to pay restititution to their victims.

That is not slavery, or involuntary servitude.

Re: Sorry . . .

justicepsych — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:28:15 GMT

Interestingly, regarding work in prison...

Amendment XIII

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Prison remains the one situation in which slavery is still legal. And it is still commonly used as such.

Re: Sorry . . .

the true conservative — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 13:54:07 GMT

You're sorry what happened to me? I went to jail?

It was no big deal. In and out in three hours.

Sorry . . .

run75441 — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 03:03:05 GMT

true:

this happened to you.

Yes they do . . .

run75441 — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 03:01:00 GMT

true:

For anywhere from 25 cents to 80 cents per hour. The funny part is the prison telling them they should file

Extermination camps and work: Good Grief!

kati — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 16:30:22 GMT

Concentration camps were extermination camps (for Jews, Gypsies, people of color, the Disabled, Gays, and political opponents or "potential opponents" of the Nazi regime, and of course the children of all of the above). Mass murder had and has nothing to do with work. The slogan on the gate under which the prisoners passed through before being sorted out for a quick death in the gas chambers or a slower one as inmates doing such work as burying the dead while being slowly starved to death, standing at attention for hours on end and being shot if they collapsed, being bitten by dogs, experimented on without any anesthetic and other forms of torture, actually also "murders" the dignity that any of us feel work deserves (that dignity comes from making a living through it, so slavery in prison and elsewhere doesn't count).

As for the exact German words and their meaning who the hell cares! (I can tell you though, it had absolutely nothing to do with Jewish ideas of work and good deeds --never ever would the Nazi use any Jewish ideas).

Re: Reply to: Lessons I learned in jail

kati — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 16:12:49 GMT

True conservative: People in prisons do work. Just Google "prisons" and "work" and you'll get a mountain of results. Prisoners are the cheapest form of labor, as low as 5 cents per hour. They are made to work and they now work for private enterprises (ex. Dell and others). Mindless work isn't going to help, only training to make a living when let out will. In the meanwhile American workers keep on losing their jobs not only to oursourcing but to the growing "insourcing" to cheap prison labor.

Re: Lessons I learned in jail

the true conservative — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 14:08:32 GMT

Were you a victim of violent crime?

Never once

Re: Lessons I learned in jail

the true conservative — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 14:07:20 GMT

If people were responsible enough to work and pay restitution or complete their community service...

THEY WOULDN'T BE CRIMINALS!

Jail is mostly there nowadays to delay a criminal's next violation. Since responsible people are going to hafta babysit them anyway, why NOT in jail?

Because:

1. House arrest is way cheaper than jail.

2. Prisoners on house arrest who are made to hold a job learn valuable life skills they can't learn in prison. You are right that these people have often not done so in the past. But being made to work, and not being allowed to go to bars and whatnot where they've gotten into trouble in the past can change those behaviors.

3. It is well-proven that non-violent offenders often pick up bad habits in prison and many come out as worse offenders than when they went in.

The primary goal for non-violent offenders should be to re-intigrate them as productive members of society. There is simply no reason to lock up a weed smoker or bar brawler, or even a non-violent thief. Give them ankle bracelets, a parole officer, and a job. It's cheaper for the taxpayers in the short run, better for all of us in the long run. Who is hurt?

Re: Lessons I learned in jail

NightSwimmer — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 13:57:20 GMT

I have no problem whatsoever acknowledging when you and I are in total agreement.

Re: Reply to: Lessons I learned in jail

gvg — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 01:19:06 GMT

the true conservative:

iNTERFAITHNATION:
The Prison Industrial Complex is Big Business & way Cheap Cheap Labor. Note the Main-Gate in Auschwitz read, "Arbitin Macht Freudin" (Work Set Ye FREE?) Note again. Keeping Busy prevents mischief & insanity & instills hope & self esteem. PS: Prison can/does save Lives too, if Ye thinketh about it.

Prisoners in america don't work.

Mabe, but they put other people to work, sometimes in the private sector.

Re: Reply to: Lessons I learned in jail

fozzy — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 23:38:49 GMT

"Prisoners in america don't work"

This is simply not true. Many prisoners don't work, but very many do. In virtually every prison you will find prisoners doing various cleaning, food service, and administrative jobs. There are also numerous private/commercial ventures that utilize prisoner labor, though they are more limited often because of controversy (often from their economic competitors, be they companies or workers). Such jobs are often highly sought by the prisoners themselves.

Re: Lessons I learned in jail

BaselessGull — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 23:29:35 GMT

the true conservative:

Let the punishment fit the crime.

Start with the politicians and enforcement people that are violent criminals. Does the majority even have a decent rationalization for what those people are saying they can do? Were you a victim of violent crime?

Re: Lessons I learned in jail

FLP_NDRox — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 23:19:32 GMT

the true conservative:
The first time I was arrested I gained a valuable insight. Locking up non-violent offenders (especially first time offenders) is just about the worst possible way of dealing with them possible. It just simply makes no sense whatsoever.
Non-violent crimes should be punished with restitution. Drug offenders should be required to work to pay for their treatment. Make drunk drivers do community service. The options are many, each one better than incarceration.
Let the punishment fit the crime. Just as importantly, let the offender do something to benefit society instead of costing society money. It simply makes no sense at all to imprison people who are not a risk for committing violent crime.

If people were responsible enough to work and pay restitution or complete their community service...

THEY WOULDN'T BE CRIMINALS!

Jail is mostly there nowadays to delay a criminal's next violation. Since responsible people are going to hafta babysit them anyway, why NOT in jail?

Re: Reply to: Lessons I learned in jail

the true conservative — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 21:47:39 GMT

iNTERFAITHNATION:
The Prison Industrial Complex is Big Business & way Cheap Cheap Labor. Note the Main-Gate in Auschwitz read, "Arbitin Macht Freudin" (Work Set Ye FREE?) Note again. Keeping Busy prevents mischief & insanity & instills hope & self esteem. PS: Prison can/does save Lives too, if Ye thinketh about it.

Prisoners in america don't work.