Human Nature

To GeneralDisarry

still-warm — Sun, 09 Dec 2007 10:21:51 GMT

GeneralDisarray:

The most obvious answer is that this further reinforces the cultural alienation that gives rise to so many of the environmental problems contributing to the problem. A corollary answer has to do with the impact of internalization.

GeneralDisarray:

Possibly. Odd that the somewhat lower performance of their children, then, would be attributable to "regression to the mean" rather than reflecting the continuing impact of "institutionalized racism".

I would suggest that neither regression to the mean nor institutionalized racism explain (as you say somewhat lower performance, I haven't seen the studies...) the performace of the children of African immigrants. Perhaps it's just absorption of the general distractions and slacker attitude of American society..? Maybe something else. If I understand you correctly American Blacks are affected by institutional racsim when subject to institutions run by Whites (how about if they are run by neither Whites nor Blacks as is becoming more common in California..) but if allowed to separate themselves into a school away from Whites, they are subject to cultural alienation. You'll excuse if I say that it sounds like "they are damned if they do and damned if they don't" What then is the solution..?

GeneralDisarray:

Perhaps in this case we are not receiving, as you suggested was the case above, "the crème de la crème"? After sixty years in this country, were any of the other nationalities who immigrated to this country in waves performing at or above the mean? Well, any where we were not receiving "the crème de la crème"?

The term "model minority" dates from the mid - 1960s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_minority
Roughly twenty years after ethnic Japanese were released from internment camps and also after Magnuson act which lifted some the restrictions on ethnic Chinese imposed by the Geary act.

Until 1970 the majority of people who migrated to the US from NE Asia came as laborers not as professionals or intellectuals (such as doctors, engineers, or scientists which became more prevalent for Asian immigrants in the 80s and 90s..)

Logical falllacies ...

still-warm — Sun, 09 Dec 2007 09:31:01 GMT

Aside from what I consider an error of taking the bible literally, the link below is a hilarious send up of some of the wilder parts of the bible:
http://www.cracked.com/article_15699_9-most-badass-bible-verses.html
most of what you wrote about the old testament is incorrect:

Sandrali:

& 3rd Historically, large numbers of Jews were... black. Moses' wife Miriam was black (look it up),

Miriam was the sister of Moses.. not his wife.. his wife's name was Zipporah the daughter of Jethro who was described as a preist from Midian. Midian which is generally described as being east of the Jordan river and the Dead Sea. There is a phrase in the bible wherein Miriam and Aaron (the brother of Moses..) criticize him for marrying a "Cushite" (Which generally meant Ethiopians but sometimes also lands to the East and lands to the West) this may have been an earlier marriage..but it's quite unclear

Sandrali:
Solomon's wife the Queen of Sheba was black...

Nope, they never married, that's for sure.... the bible indicates she flirted with him but resisted his advances..

Sandrali:

Shit Solomon himself wrote "I am black and I am comely" in one of his psalms.

Nope.. that was from a women who likely was Sheba.. not from Solomon ..the bible indicates
that she flirted with Solomon but never took him as a lover, Ethiopians however believed she returned to Ethiopia with Solomon's child...

Sandrali:

Your only problem with the Duke/Don Black kkkrew seems to be the Jewish issue.

They certainly seem to believe that Jews are their biggest issue, hence my discussion of it in those terms..there are certainly other issues I have with them.

Re: Oh?

run75441 — Sun, 09 Dec 2007 04:52:33 GMT

I find nothing offensive in the truth. Your comments are secure

Re: Damage control and inoculation.

E. O'Neal — Sat, 08 Dec 2007 22:47:03 GMT

General, I think you're way over-dramatizing this debate. Sure, there are racists on the fringe of the debate since it involves race, but the key scientists involved on both sides have mutual respect and don't attack each others' motives. As you stated above, genetics will soon resolve the issue of racial differences, so everyone should take a deep breath.

The Hitler analogy is far-fetched. In 1930s Germany, Jews were resented for their success and accused of stabbing the nation in the back in WWI. Today in this country, most people and both political parties have nothing but good will toward African-Americans. There's no Hitler in sight, and many blacks have good jobs and live in decent neighborhoods. The serious social problem is the approximately half of black Americans that live in mostly dysfunctional families in the crime-ridden inner cities, go to failing schools and have little chance of ever escaping.

The median IQ in these inner city neighborhoods has been estimated at less than 80. This huge IQ deficit presents obvious challenges for schools, criminal justice and health services that would remain even if racism entirely disappeared -- which it never will. Enlightened social policy would recognize that traditional education will be ineffectual for all but a relatively few of these kids. Beyond basic academic skills (functional literacy and arithmetic), what most of these kids need is real, hands-on training for semi-skilled trades and occupations. Despite all the money we are spending on "education", this is not happening.

Damage control and inoculation.

GeneralDisarray — Sat, 08 Dec 2007 19:33:00 GMT

All the interesting stuff happens at the margins. I don't think for a moment that I substantially undermined the opinions of stillwarm, that ol' "taboo-stalker" whatshisname, morganlee, or any of the other intractable racists I've been talking to. I'm just disinclined to allow them the floor, unimpeded, so they can weave their distorting argument without someone pointing out that the loom they're weaving on isn't science, it's just good-ol' bigotry incarnated in a shiny new machine.

Otherwise, I agree - we'd all be much better off creating a new dialogue, rather than participating in this one. One of my more intellectual friends was arguing a similar point recently, though his point was related more (I think) to strategies for finding "the truth" than to reinforcing a frame. I didn't respond to him, but I probably should, because anyone who really thinks we've been debating science here has either a poor understanding, or a distorted view, of "science". This isn't science - it's bigotry with numbers. What we've been arguing here is more subtle than that - it's related to alternatives in world view, and in some ways, mirrors the same tired old "conservative" and "liberal" arguments on other topics.

It's funny - my friend also made reference to the emotion-laden arguments and offense expressed in a dismissive way. I don't see it that way - I see the nature of the offense as related to framing (again). That people don't express this (or conceptualize it) well is beside the point. But some people have become so enthralled by the narcissistic rapture of "science" that they've failed to question the (carefully crafted) nature of the questions being asked, and how this fundamentally alters both the results obtained, and the manner in which they are interpreted. They wave a dismissive hand at the impassioned objections of people who can feel the distortion in their gut, even if they can't describe the manner of it.

When we don't counter the bigots, then they get to control the parameters of the discussion. When we don't speak up, we are in essence colluding with their proselytizing efforts. I've too much conscience to abdicate the floor. But otherwise, I agree - it's distasteful, and in many ways futile.

I'd just like to believe that, had I lived in Germany in the thirties, I'd have been heckling from the back of the room, and printing leaflets on the side. This generation of adults has never faced the kind of national challenges we might be in for, and I'm afraid we're ill-prepared for them. But if people think that atrocities of the nature (though even I like to think, not the scope) of those in Germany could not occur here, they should take a longer look at the ease with which this electorate has been so effectively manipulated, and spend a little more time thinking about the appeal of being led down a cool garden path, when you're living in (or have been deceived into believing you live in) a desert.

Re: Well, people often don't fall...

Sandrali — Sat, 08 Dec 2007 13:46:02 GMT

Dear General...

I've been very impressed by your patient and tolerant stance here on this issue.

You've been a model of clear thinking, open mindedness & compassion.

I fall into the 2 & 3 category of the previous poster, but I go even futher. Not only is the frame incorrect, not only is the science inconclusive, not only are the advocates dyed-in-the-wool racists, but debate is pointless.

As you have so neatly said, either we help everyone who needs helping or we don't.

So you admit your racism

Sandrali — Sat, 08 Dec 2007 13:16:53 GMT

... then it was likely to try to get him to moderate his frankly bizarre attitudes towards Jews.

See what I mean?

Your only problem with the Duke/Don Black kkkrew seems to be the Jewish issue. You obviously think their psychotic positions about blacks, latinos, miscegenation, white nationalism and race war are all "not bizarre."

Face the fact buddy. You are a racist. Jared's supposed "Jewtrality" is neither here nor there... he is a white separatist.

This isn't hard for anyone on the outside to see. You can try to take a moral high ground because you're part Jewish, and Jared's wife might be a Jew (thus his children as well)... You may feel smug in getting the smarty-pants racist Jews to be your buddies.Doesn't change the fact that

1st You are a still racist hate mongers

2nd Your supposed allies will turn on you as Jew-lovers the minute they don't need you anymore.

& 3rd Historically, large numbers of Jews were... black. Moses' wife Miriam was black (look it up), Solomon's wife the Queen of Sheba was black... Shit Solomon himself wrote "I am black and I am comely" in one of his psalms. The people who left Egypt with Moses included a host of Nubians as well... You ever see a Nubian? Go to Egypt and sail up the Nile. Nubians are black.

So. Happy Holidays my racist brother. Don't forget that at least one of the 3 kings who came to worship baby Jesus was black... and the long-haired hippy savior himself was no Aryan himself.

"The flock of the Lord shall have hair like lamb's wool."

Re: What do Sharpton and Farrakhan...

still-warm — Sat, 08 Dec 2007 06:48:19 GMT

"Did someone suggest these were virtuous figures, in the same sense that you've suggested Taylor is a virtuous figure?"

I don't consider Taylor fully virtuous nor Farrakhan or Sharpton fully villainous... In my opinion all of the above are advancing their tribal interests in ways they see most fit.

"Does a listing in Wikipedia disqualify information?"

As I suggested in my previous post I believe an entry in Wikipedia which has no citation nor any other supporting evidence from any other source (at least that I could find) and is incongruous with other information should be called into question.

"Did Taylor oppose the nomination of Condoleeza Rice because she is Black?"

I did a google search and I couldn't find any negative comments by Taylor in regards to Rice so I don't know.

What do Sharpton and Farrakhan...

GeneralDisarray — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 13:01:58 GMT

have to do with Taylor's racism?

Did someone suggest these were virtuous figures, in the same sense that you've suggested Taylor is a virtuous figure?

Does a listing in Wikipedia disqualify information?

Did Taylor oppose the nomination of Condoleeza Rice because she is Black?

Re: Sounds like you should read the book.

GeneralDisarray — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 12:54:16 GMT

still-warm:

If Blacks are so affected by White racism and low expectations from White teachers shouldn't they have their own schools systems? Why wait for Whitey..? There's no institutional racism when you race runs the show right...?"

The most obvious answer is that this further reinforces the cultural alienation that gives rise to so many of the environmental problems contributing to the problem. A corollary answer has to do with the impact of internalization.

still-warm:

I am sure culture plays some component of academic failure.. but is that something White people can fix or Black people can fix..? I tend to believe the out performance of Black Africans (and to a lesser degree..) Black Caribbeans over Black Americans is due to the strong filter of immigration. Many of the Blacks who have immigrated from Africa have college degrees, in other words we are taking the cream of the crop.

Possibly. Odd that the somewhat lower performance of their children, then, would be attributable to "regression to the mean" rather than reflecting the continuing impact of "institutionalized racism".

still-warm:

If so then why then do Latinos (the large majority of who migrated to the US within the last 60 years voluntarily..) under perform Whites and NE Asians and Asian Indians?

Perhaps in this case we are not receiving, as you suggested was the case above, "the crème de la crème"? After sixty years in this country, were any of the other nationalities who immigrated to this country in waves performing at or above the mean? Well, any where we were not receiving "the crème de la crème"?

still-warm:

As for historical racism there was no shortage of it directed against ethnic Chinese and Japanese. A good portion of which were brought here as indentured servants, not withstanding their offspring academically (as well as financially) have out performed Whites in the US. Why has the historic racism not affected them..?

Presumably for the same reason that the Irish assimilated well, despite their being a maligned "race", and for the same reason the term "Dumbswede" seems rather ludicrous these days.

Re: Questions from Jared Taylor

still-warm — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 12:45:51 GMT

John1827:
I did some research on Taylor on the internet. Here is just a small selection of statements that Jared has made on minorities:
On Blacks: "when blacks are left entirely to their own devices, Western Civilization—any kind of civilization—disappears. And in a crisis, civilization disappears overnight."
On interracial children "I want my grandchildren to look like my grandparents. I don't want them to look like Anwar Sadat or Foo Man Chu or Whoopi Goldberg."
In a speech to the council of conservative citizens (on Youtube) Taylor pointedly alludes to the 'N' word in describing blacks.
On the Holocaust: Someone asked Taylor: "the myth of the holocaust is a millstone around the neck of any nascent white nationalist movement. Where do you stand on this? Did the Nazis genocidally wipe out 6 million jews or did they not?" Taylor's one line reply: "I’m not an expert on the subject, and it is not one into which I have looked."
Note that Taylor's closest friend is a certain Mark Weber. Mark Weber is the former editor of the neo-Nazi publication National Vanguard
Taylor believes that the United States government should work in the interests of whites above all other races. He has openly and explicitly opposed the ideal of equal citizenship for all races (refer to debate involving Steve Sailer. Note that Sailer is himself a character of highly unsavory views - but Taylor is much further to the right than even Sailer). Taylor opposed the appointment of Condoleeza Rice on purely racial grounds only.
I challenge Taylor to refute any of the above.
So is Taylor a racist then? If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ...

It appears a fair portion of what you wrote can from a wikipedia entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Taylor

Several things.. the reference to Mark Weber does not describe Taylor as his closest friend but as a close friend...that said there is no reference or citation to support this comment..has Mark Weber praised Taylor yes.. as has the Wall Street Journal and David Horowitz (who's ethnically Jewish and a strong supporter of Israel..) Would Weber want to be a close friend of Taylor who employees ethnic Jews and is married to a Jewish woman..? Seems odd.

As for the holocaust comment you left out this:

"American Renaissance posted a response on the matter, with Taylor stating, "I understand that estimates of the death toll range from four to six million", and "to imply that I somehow doubted the Holocaust itself, is not only absurd but malicious."

Taylor is unabashedly ethnocentric but by the same standards so are many Black and Latino leaders... almost every (non-White) racial group has leaders who pointedly advance their groups interests, associate with some highly dubious characters, and have made pointedly anti - semitic and anti White remarks.

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=2411

http://www.nationalreview.com/lowry/lowry200312030840.asp

1987: Sharpton spreads the incendiary Tawana Brawley hoax, insisting heatedly that a 15-year-old black girl was abducted, raped, and smeared with feces by a group of white men. He singles out Steve Pagones, a young prosecutor. Pagones is wholly innocent -- the crime never occurred -- but Sharpton taunts him: "If we're lying, sue us, so we can . . . prove you did it." Pagones does sue, and eventually wins a $345,000 verdict for defamation. To this day, Sharpton refuses to recant his unspeakable slander or to apologize for his role in the odious affair. 1991: A Hasidic Jewish driver in Brooklyn's Crown Heights section accidentally kills Gavin Cato, a 7-year-old black child, and antisemitic riots erupt. Sharpton races to pour gasoline on the fire. At Gavin's funeral he rails against the "diamond merchants" -- code for Jews -- with "the blood of innocent babies" on their hands. He mobilizes hundreds of demonstrators to march through the Jewish neighborhood, chanting, "No justice, no peace." A rabbinical student, Yankel Rosenbaum, is surrounded by a mob shouting "Kill the Jews!" and stabbed to death. 1995: When the United House of Prayer, a large black landlord in Harlem, raises the rent on Freddy's Fashion Mart, Freddy's white Jewish owner is forced to raise the rent on his subtenant, a black-owned music store. A landlord-tenant dispute ensues; Sharpton uses it to incite racial hatred. "We will not stand by," he warns malignantly, "and allow them to move this brother so that some white interloper can expand his business." Sharpton's National Action Network sets up picket lines; customers going into Freddy's are spat on and cursed as "traitors" and "Uncle Toms." Some protesters shout, "Burn down the Jew store!" and simulate striking a match. "We're going to see that this cracker suffers," says Sharpton's colleague Morris Powell. On Dec. 8, one of the protesters bursts into Freddy's, shoots four employees point-blank, then sets the store on fire. Seven employees die in the inferno.

As for guilt by association we might as well take a look at the multi decade relationship between Farrakhan and Jesse Jackson:

Some of Farrakhan's comments about Jews:

http://www.adl.org/special_reports/farrakhan_own_words2/on_jews.asp

Some of Farrakhan's comments about Whites:

http://www.adl.org/special_reports/farrakhan_own_words2/on_whites.asp

Jackson and Farrakhan:

http://www.finalcall.com/webcast/MLF-RJJ/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/frenzy/jackson.htm

Re: Oh?

still-warm — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 09:25:21 GMT

"Funny, the one relatively innocuous comment I made there never made it's way onto the [Amren]board."

That's happened to me too... in every case I was sure I was not violating the terms of the board... you could try again or post your comment here.

"To go back to a previous point, if we were to conduct a study on people who make public comments about the undesirable qualities of Black people, I'm confident that we'd discover that such people are at significantly increased probability of committing crimes directed at Black people."

Well first organizations that promote anything along the lines of White racialism (or for that matter who actively urge the US government to enforce our nation's border control laws) are already heavily monitored by private organizations, there is evidence that some are monitored by government organizations. Jared Taylor has been roughed up more than once when he has tried to speak or debate.

I don't know too much about the racial profiling issue, I did find these articles:

http://www.city-journal.org/html/11_2_the_myth.html

http://www.vdare.com/fulford/profiling.htm

Also as a result of more rigorous law enforcement in recent decades the murder rate of Blacks by other Blacks has dropped faster than Black on White and White on White murder:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm

" Shall we use this data as justification to cavity-search Mr. Taylor every time he crosses a border?"

So what group gets a cavity search every time they cross a border (do you mean the US border..?) Wouldn't this be related to the drug trade and not potential hate crimes..? By the way I have been stopped, questioned, and my luggage searched by customs 6 of the last 6 times I entered the US at SFO. I'm a middle aged US citizen with no convictions of any kind and an honorable discharged from the US military. Annoying but whatever.

"Shall we bring him in for questioning every time there is a hate crime in Virginia?"

Hmmm.. should we also bring in Al Sharpton (who routinely appears on network television who was allowed to debate with other Democratic candidates for a US Presidential nomination and whose actions and protests <b> have </b> actually coincided or preceded hate crimes..? )

http://www.hscca.org/articles/alsharpton.html

How about this man if a hate crime is committed in North Carolina:

http://www.proteinwisdom.com/?p=5484

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,234600,00.html

"If not, why? It's only profiling, after all, and Jared should be willing to subject himself to the same indignities he proposes for Black people. Shouldn't he?"

I can't speak for Taylor but I suspect some White Nationalists would be absolutely fine if they were every questioned every time a hate crime was committed against Blacks in their area so long as Al Sharpton was also questioned every time there was a hate crime committed against ethnic Jews or Gentiles in New York. And by the way, you do know that per capita Blacks commit hate crimes at higher rates than Whites..? (And Hispanics are lumped in with Whites when they are perpetrators but not when they are victims..)

"And what about you? Shall we assume that you're aiding and abetting?"

Hah.. go to almost any board for non-Whites centered around race and you'll find rather vicious anti-White anti-semitic (and for not as common but whatever non-White race that seems to bug the individuals..) Granted sometimes these people are shouted down but on some boards they are applauded.

I have a relative by marriage who's Asian, after a discussion with him I became curious about some Asian issues and found this site which is run by UNC Law School Professor:

http://www.modelminority.com

The signature of one of the posters is:
"Kill kill kill the White man"
Another has "Jews belong in ovens"

And oddly enough, running this board hasn't seemed to hurt the professor's career.

I've run across some boards for Black people that have equally vicious comments.. is this common among all non-Whites...? No I don't think so, but vicious anti-White and anti-semitic rhetoric is quite prevalent across the blogsphere.

Re: Questions from Jared Taylor

John1827 — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 09:16:27 GMT

I did some research on Taylor on the internet. Here is just a small selection of statements that Jared has made on minorities:

On Blacks: "when blacks are left entirely to their own devices, Western Civilization—any kind of civilization—disappears. And in a crisis, civilization disappears overnight."

On interracial children "I want my grandchildren to look like my grandparents. I don't want them to look like Anwar Sadat or Foo Man Chu or Whoopi Goldberg."

In a speech to the council of conservative citizens (on Youtube) Taylor pointedly alludes to the 'N' word in describing blacks.

On the Holocaust: Someone asked Taylor: "the myth of the holocaust is a millstone around the neck of any nascent white nationalist movement. Where do you stand on this? Did the Nazis genocidally wipe out 6 million jews or did they not?" Taylor's one line reply: "I’m not an expert on the subject, and it is not one into which I have looked."

Note that Taylor's closest friend is a certain Mark Weber. Mark Weber is the former editor of the neo-Nazi publication National Vanguard

Taylor believes that the United States government should work in the interests of whites above all other races. He has openly and explicitly opposed the ideal of equal citizenship for all races (refer to debate involving Steve Sailer. Note that Sailer is himself a character of highly unsavory views - but Taylor is much further to the right than even Sailer). Taylor opposed the appointment of Condoleeza Rice on purely racial grounds only.

I challenge Taylor to refute any of the above.

So is Taylor a racist then? If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ...

Re: Sounds like you should read the book.

still-warm — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 07:36:05 GMT

"It sounds as though actually reading the book might answer your questions."

Spiker had made a request asking for a control for environment and income.. I have obliged with the SAT scores vis a' vis income.. and with this study wherein apparently the incomes, neighborhoods, and schools overall were considered middle to upper middle class.

I've read large excerpts of the book..(He was one of the proponents for Ebonics in the Oakland, CA school system. I lived in Oakland at the time.. the notion that Whites and Blacks in Oakland couldn't communicate because of Ebonics was ridiculous..) .I disagree with the notion that Black under performance is heavily based upon past and current racism from Whites. But let's say that this is the problem..I'll say it again:

If Blacks are so affected by White racism and low expectations from White teachers shouldn't they have their own schools systems? Why wait for Whitey..? There's no institutional racism when you race runs the show right...?"

I am sure culture plays some component of academic failure.. but is that something White people can fix or Black people can fix..? I tend to believe the out performance of Black Africans (and to a lesser degree..) Black Caribbeans over Black Americans is due to the strong filter of immigration. Many of the Blacks who have immigrated from Africa have college degrees, in other words we are taking the cream of the crop.

Let's examine one of John Ogbu's theories versus a few other groups:

"Ogbu argued that the reason people of the same race who differed in ability from country to country could be characterized as "voluntary minorities" (immigrants who chose to come to the United States) versus "involuntary" or "caste-like" minorities (born in the United States)."

If so then why then do Latinos (the large majority of who migrated to the US within the last 60 years voluntarily..) under perform Whites and NE Asians and Asian Indians?

As for historical racism there was no shortage of it directed against ethnic Chinese and Japanese. A good portion of which were brought here as indentured servants, not withstanding their offspring academically (as well as financially) have out performed Whites in the US. Why has the historic racism not affected them..?

Well, people often don't fall...

GeneralDisarray — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 07:24:28 GMT

into neat categories. I'd actually argue that for many of us, we'd see your categories three and four as one and the same.

As is often the case with debates such as these, you can see people arriving at the same conclusions (at least seemingly) for very different reasons. Some people will say, "No, it can't be!" because they refuse to consider the possibility. Others will say "No, you've got it wrong" and it can sound the same, if you don't read very differently.

I mention it because a number of the people who I think you'd put into your category two probably belong in their own category. They are refusing the frame the issue has been presented in (as do I, actually). August springs to mind as a thoughtful person who will not grant credence to this particular frame.

I thought you were particularly astute when you noted, once, that this is not really an issue of race. You're right - this is not an issue of race. It is an issue of disenfranchisement that transcends race. As ethnicity tends to covary with disenfranchisement, it begins to look like and issue of race, because race is such a salient variable.

When I tell you that it's premature to assume this is an issue of genetics, I am being completely serious - and more "realistic" than anyone who's had the temerity to add this to their signature. But I can also say, be patient - we will have clarity eventually. In the mean time, it behooves us to do what we can for all disenfranchised people, regardless of skin tone. It also behooves us to speak up (and loudly) against the concrete-thinking racists who would counsel otherwise.

But I do agree that, even if race were entirely a social construct, this is hardly justification for ignoring the issue. We have an educational system in which schools are funded primarily by the local tax base, and we have multigenerational problems in many urban areas. Our collective experience with Native Americans (which has come at such great cost to them) is instructive. We took an entire generation of children away from their families, and put them in boarding schools. Depriving them of all role models, and of opportunities for all the collateral learning that complements traditional education, we (they) are left with a generation of adults are not comfortable with the mantle of adulthood, and who are ill-prepared to assume it. This has now exerted a terrible impact on the next generation - these parents lacked models for parenting. When you have no model, what would otherwise feel natural, does not.

We incarcerate an unconscionable number of Black men, and then gasp at the achievement difference between Black men and women. It's not rocket science - we need, as a culture, to stop depriving entire generations of kids with role models.

I left a comment on a group blog I participate in, for one of my despondent colleagues. Maybe that'll clarify things a little. I keep meaning to write a post (or series of posts) summarizing things from my perspective, but as is often the case when I'm operating within my area - where to start? There's too much to say.

But I appreciate you trying to keep an open mind on the matter. Really, that's all I ask - be skeptical, and keep an open mind. Eventually, things will become clear. In the mean time, refrain from coming to judgment - things are much more complicated than they appear on the surface.