Human Nature

Re: Hereditarian research—Pioneer is sole funding source

still-warm — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 11:25:34 GMT

spiker:
It is telling that people wont' volunteer their IQ and yet are willing to put so much stock into it when it comes to large racial groupings. Actually it is funny, very funny.

Well 1380 on the SAT (pre 1994) which apparently correlates to an iq between 142 to 145:

http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/oldSATIQ.aspx

1380 142.62 145.46 99.775

I didn't prep for the test and the high school I attended was ranked very low in the state.

FWIW I scored an 11 on the DENSA test :

http://www.pressanykey.com/cgi-bin/jquiz.cgi

Moses and the ark ... damn..

Re: Hereditarian research—Pioneer is sole funding source

spiker — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 17:03:29 GMT

You over reacted to my asking simply if you have taken the test. I wasn't going to ask you your score.

Re: Hereditarian research—Pioneer is sole funding source

freepeoplearenotequal — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 14:29:05 GMT

Dear spiker,

Give it up. No matter how you slice it or dice it, big brain or small brain, IQ meaningful or meaningless, white is black and black is white--words are not going to change physical reality. But maybe, what you call "popcorn science" has managed to change your perception of physical reality and you indeed expect that people are "blank slates" and if you give them everything possible from before they are born, they will wind up equal.

From many of your postings, I understand that you live in the world of 1984:

FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

And thus, I bid you goodbye.

Re: Hereditarian research—Pioneer is sole funding source

spiker — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 06:00:33 GMT

Thanks, no subscription.

I was trying dot com and not dot org.

Regardless. I read this kind of article all the time. I never put any real stock into them. They are patently ridiculous in the end. Ask the researchers(conjecturers) if they'd stake their lives on their claim of the man's IQ and they'd run for the hills for all the variable-variables of this pseudo-science. Popcorn science with no real value other than to propagate a myth that big headed people are likelier more intelligent as measured by IQ.

Who would understand IQ better and what it means? Someone who has taken the test at least once or someone who hasn't taken it at all.

Have you taken it?

Re: Hereditarian research—Pioneer is sole funding source

freepeoplearenotequal — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 03:53:15 GMT

Dear spiker,

If you are asking about sciencemag link to the article, here is the search on sciencemag.org that shows the article. However, you might not be able to read the full article if you are not a subscriber.

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/search?fulltext=What+the+Scull+Tells+Us&issue=5855&journal_search_keyword_go.x=0&journal_search_keyword_go.y=0&journal_search_keyword_go=go

Re: Hereditarian research—Pioneer is sole funding source

spiker — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 03:15:15 GMT

I clicked on your link. It led nowhere. Tried a little but thought it would be easier to just ask you to link again.

Re: Hereditarian research—Pioneer is sole funding source

freepeoplearenotequal — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 02:40:37 GMT

Re: putting such great stock into it [IQ]...

Science Magazine www.sciencemag Vol 318 page 1357 November 30, 2007

What the Scull Tells

…Robert the Bruce, 14th century king of Scots, died in Scotland in 1329 at age 55. A highly accurate cast of his scull…made when his tomb was discovered in 1819, now sits in anatomy department of the University of Edinburgh.

Studies have shown that brain, and therefore scull, have modest but significant correlation with IQ. …They compared his scull measurement with those of 48 Scotsmen who took an IQ-like reading test. The men’s score correlated well—at around 0.5—with brain imaging measurements of their intracranial space. Applying the same relationship to Bruce’s high-brow cranium, the researchers report in November issue of Intelligence that his IQ probably hovered around 128.

,,,The estimated IQ is in the same ballpark as those of other leaders and is corroborated by suggestions that Bruce spoke several languages and was a master of national and international politics.

One of the most respected science magazines in the world publishes an article and uses such words as cranial measurement and IQ. They do it without any apology or explanation of what IQ means. Apparently, those reading the magazine understand the meaning behinds these words.

It makes no difference what your, mine, or anyone's individual IQ is. But if you can't get this concept, then...

Re: Hereditarian research—Pioneer is sole funding source

spiker — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:53:09 GMT

It is not bad manners if someone is talking about it first and putting such great stock into it. People talk about it like they even know what it means. Never taken one then what the hell does any score mean relative to your non-existant score, absolutely nothing. You end up not having any perspective.

This all along has been about intellectual curiousity on IQ and now you want to let people in an anonymous setting demure. Laughable. Given that they'll likely lie anyways. Even to themselves.

Good day. :-)

Re: Hereditarian research—Pioneer is sole funding source

freepeoplearenotequal — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:02:55 GMT

Dear spiker,

Re: It is telling that people won't volunteer their IQ...

I am surprised you don't know that it is considered bad manners to disclose one's IQ or to ask others about theirs.

Besides, the Slate's conversations have to do with averages not individuals.

Good day.

Re: Hereditarian research—Pioneer is sole funding source

E. O'Neal — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:34:43 GMT

I'm glad you liked my joke.

Re: Hereditarian research—Pioneer is sole funding source

spiker — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:35:25 GMT

It is telling that people wont' volunteer their IQ and yet are willing to put so much stock into it when it comes to large racial groupings. Actually it is funny, very funny.

Re: Hereditarian research—Pioneer is sole funding source

E. O'Neal — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:17:40 GMT

OK spiker, I'll tell you my IQ. I got all the answers right, and they said my IQ was "infinite".

Re: Hereditarian research—Pioneer is sole funding source

spiker — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:06:27 GMT

Sadly they'll ignore you. They are to a man intellectual (and probably physical) cowards. Not one proponent of IQ will volunteer their own IQ in good faith.

Re: Hereditarian research—Pioneer is sole funding source

JahSun — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 08:51:35 GMT

so Gal,

You were raised liberal and egalitarian and decided to devote yourself to this field out of an altruistic need to find "truth in science." Wait you actually said out of a disrespect for false bullshit. And of all the false bullshit in this world you chose to focus on the towering myth of black equality...

Interesting, but you are obviously leaving something out. Were you mugged at some point by an African-American? What is it about blacks that got your panties in a twist. Quoting a slave owner about his conception of his slaves as a definitive statement about the capacity of modern blacks in the US is something we saw from Confederate leaders back in the Civil War... Besides, Jefferson was enamored enough of his slaves to have sex with them, even setting one up as a mistress of sorts.

If false bullshit bothers you so, and not race... then would you classify yourself as being this upset over recent revelations that Scott McClellan has admitted that the President had him lie to exonerate Scooter Libby?

"There was one problem. It was not true. I had unknowingly passed along false information. And five of the highest-ranking officials in the administration were involved in my doing so: Rove, Libby, the vice-president, the president's chief of staff and the president himself."

Perhaps this isn't as "scientifically sound" as measuring heads, penises, and distance of ejaculation like what good old Rushton does. I don't buy it.

We are literally awash in bullshit from every angle in this modern world, and somehow all you guys seem to find this quest to prove prejudice to be the most important issue of our times... despite being unable to point to a single ethical use for the research. Hmmmm.

Re: Hereditarian research—Pioneer is sole funding source

spiker — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 04:53:45 GMT

There has been a recently released Norwegian study that showed that first born children on average have an IQ score 3-4 points greater than that of the third born child.

If birth order alone, a small environmental factor, can induce a 3-4 point difference what effect would would racism have on black American IQ scores? 5-10 points?

What about all the other environmental factors that minorities suffer from such as lead poisoning, malnutrition, poverty propogated poor parenting practices, poor public policy, decrepit education infrastructure, mediocre teachers, and others.

You do realize that a single study has completely undermined this pseudo-science and exposed it for what it is? Powerless in determining that genetics are at the root of large racial disparities in terms of IQ scores on the order of a WHOLE STANDARD OF DEVIATION.

You are intellectually honest enough to admit this aren't you? You have claimed to be. Explain yourself in light of this new information.