Human Nature

Re: What’s wrong with fathering your grandchild?

DeaH — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 00:04:27 GMT

Actually, we don't know the extent of the problems related with sperm from old men. We are just now beginning to study it. And, so far, the discoveries have not been heartening.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/44641.php

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/51191.php

http://www.thetech.org/genetics/ask.php?id=157

https://publicaffairs.llnl.gov/news/news_releases/2006/NR-06-06-01.html

Of course, there has been a lot of study in this area. The research has focused on mothers. But, the initial finding don't seem to bode that well.

Re: What’s wrong with fathering your grandchild?

LadyMoonstone — Sat, 15 Dec 2007 21:23:48 GMT

For one thing, age-related genetic flaws are more prevalent in women than men, meaning that a woman who donates an egg (or demands IVF) is the one being irresponsible.

For another, I see little difference between this and accepting sperm donated by a total stranger, or your brother, or a college buddy. Sperm is sperm.

Also, the legal fictions revolving around "custody" and "rightful heir" are just that-fictions. The mother of a child has the opportunity to sort all that out simply by entering her husband's name on the birth certificate under "father." If there was concern about all these ludicrous potential claims, why request the donation in the first place?

The "yuck" factor should only apply in cases of actual sexual intimacy. IVF is no more intimate than getting a tetanus shot, and about as erotic.

I personally would have Leviticus completely extracted from the Bible. It creates too much of this nonsense.

Re: What’s wrong with fathering your grandchild?

thomyorke — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 19:32:49 GMT

Actually, there is no way to father your own grandchild. To FATHER anyone is to be their FATHER. His son will be raising a child who is 1/2 his wife and 1/2 his father. His son already only has 1/2 of his father's genes. I fail to see how this is yucky.

Re: Yuck inducing

USNVETERAN — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:00:30 GMT

Another poster or two had similar insightful comments.

Most are programmed to see incest as a negative and cannot see past injecting(ejaculating?) that into this supposition.

It's not 'screwing" so, what's the problem?

Re: BA's top 10 reasons not to father your own grandkids

USNVETERAN — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 20:57:58 GMT

" - doesn't grandma need to give approval before her lifelong spouse starts making new babies, even if he IS only putting his sperm in a beaker for their son to make use of?"

Maybe Grandma is helping him get there.

How about THAT for all you up-tighties?

Re: What’s wrong with fathering your grandchild?

USNVETERAN — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 20:53:09 GMT

You are incorrect.

The person who raises a child is the real DAD.

Whoever the "real father" is, has no relation to that as, many times the "rea; father' does not raise the child.

In the same vein, the "real mother' may not be the one who raises the child and, the one who does raise the child will be the real "MOM".

BA's top 10 reasons not to father your own grandkids

baltimore aureole — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:57:12 GMT

10 - we need more genetic diversity to improve the health of our species, not less

9 - if the son is "sterile", do we want to reach further back into that same gene pool to include the progenitors of that sterility problem?

8 - technically, the grandfather is the father, and might sue for paternity rights? especially if he has a falling out with his son and daughter in law over their "wild lifestyle" . . .

7 - how many kids in the world need adoption? there's more than 7 zeros behind the first digit, isn't there?

6 - this is a poor way to spend an extra $20,000-$100,000

5 - michael moore would disapprove, because england and cuba don't provide this sort of service

4 - doesn't grandma need to give approval before her lifelong spouse starts making new babies, even if he IS only putting his sperm in a beaker for their son to make use of?

3 - does this deal become invalid if the sterile son was adopted (i.e., not natural)? think about it - if we wouldn't permit grandpa to become the surrogate parent for an adopted son, what does that tell you about the ethos/morality of the process to begin with?

2 - world overpopulation. leave well enough alone.

1 - how do you ever tell the kid that his grandpa is his real daddy, and his real daddy is a parent but not the biological father, without making him feel like freak

No, it's the epitomy of selfishness

DeaH — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 21:06:02 GMT

All breeding is selfish. In Darwinian terms, fitness doesn't mean the most physically fit guy who can beat everyone up gets the chick. No, fitness - in Darwinian terms - just means babies that live long enough to have babies, that live long enough to have babies, that live long enough to have babies, ad infinitum. Breeding is your shot at immortality, if only at the genetic level (and only some of your genes will make it.)

So, is it selfish to make sure that your genes are represented in offspring that you will devote your resources to raising? Yes, but it's not anything new. It's not new across species, and it's not new for humankind.

The epitome of self-indulgence

tonydavisnelson — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 16:17:33 GMT

This is the epitome of self-indulgence. Here is a couple who can't produce a child so instead of adopting, they are going to spend thousands of dollars and risk genetic defects, birth of multiples and other complications to produce a child that is as similar to them as possible.

This is not about them caring for a child; this is about them passing on their DNA--regardless of the risks. Seems to me like ego is motivating them.

Re: What’s wrong with fathering your grandchild?

funkymurt — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 16:14:12 GMT

Of course there's nothing really "wrong" with fathering your own grandchild, as this is put. Besides, he's not fathering anything but his son. It's really the strangeness of raising your half-brother who's mom is your wife.

Isn't it emasculating enough to have your dad cover your paycheck, your career path, and your college admission? Do you really need to get him to cover your marital duties as well?

Re: What’s wrong with fathering your grandchild?

sm400 — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 14:45:41 GMT

Hmm. John Huston fathered Faye Dunaway's child in Chinatown.

Re: What’s wrong with fathering your grandchild?

VaryaM — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 12:11:06 GMT

I don't find anything "morally" wrong with this ... so I would disagree with the objections from the incest camp ... A. the conception would happen through artificial insemination, I am presuming and B. there is no blood relation between the grandfather and the mother-to be. The issue is about the parenting of the child. Even the most understanding, live and let live kind of grandparents find something objectionable about the way a grandchild is being raised. Emotionally, I think it would be too difficult for the grandparent (whether it be a sperm-donating grandfather or a womb -lending grandmother) to maintain the parenting distance that is expected of grandparents when they have been such an integral part of the biological parenting. Legal issues would have to be sorted out from the get go so that there would be no custody claim or inheritance claim should those issues arise, but the emotion would be too much for most people to overcome.

Re: I'm My Own Grandpa

Lfox368806 — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 12:04:28 GMT

I can think of many reasons:

Legal: could the kid contest the will for a piece of the pie when Grandpa's gone?

Moral: sooner or later, someone's gonna say, "hey, why don't we save the cost of the doctor's visit, and do it directly?"

Parental: it could stir up confusing authority issues - would the Grandpa feel justified in critiquing his son's parenting skills?

Re: What’s wrong with fathering your grandchild?

kaylahz — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 12:01:45 GMT

This issue triggers the incest taboo response, which is where you get the "yuck." The incest taboo is an universal prohibition against certain familial pairings (which is different in every society). In this society, having sex with your father-in-law is considered morally wrong. I understand this woman is not suggesting having sex with her father-in-law, but she is suggesting implanting his sperm in her. And for many people, that is the basic end-result of sex. Sperm comes out. Woman gets pregnant. The fact that this is all quite anti-septic, even sterilized, and surrounded by technological innovations and lingo does not alter the fact that we are programmed, biosocially, to be yucked out whenever the incest taboo is violated. And this FEELS like a violation. Its similiar to those of us who believe Woody Allen having sex with his quasi-adopted daughter is incest. Sure, they aren't biologically related, but there is a deep taboo against such couplings. The better question here is: why do we have an incest taboo?

Then why were they so hot

rundeep — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 03:13:49 GMT

to have some genetic material from the same family? For these people having a genetic child was important.