Faith-Based

Re: KG - thanks for the research help

konark_girl — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 04:04:21 GMT

This isn't the most user-friendly site, but it does have pretty much all countries if you can wade thru :) This page has life expectancy for men versus women....good place to start measuring gender inequity.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2102.html

Re: Yes, I'm sure they do

konark_girl — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 03:56:24 GMT

Pogue Mahone:
konark_girl:

Maybe it's a good way to clear your country of conservative Muslims, which IMO is a worthwhile aim. America should adopt this sort of sex-ed, maybe we could get rid of the fundamentalist Muslims and Christians, too!

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Yup, much of the deep south would start to look very de-populated :) :)

So you want all Christians to leave the country?

Nah, just the ones who put personal religion before public health. You know, the ones similar to those wacko Muslims in Sweden that Truett was laughing at. Actually, I wouldn't mind a bit if Hindus with similar religious blindness left the country too.

I suspect most educated Christians, Hindus and Muslims aren't quite so wacko, so only the fringe few would leave.

Re: Outraged? Geez - that just breaks my heart...not

einhverfr — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 23:19:05 GMT

Probably THE most impressive public health program I have looked at in the world is Ghana's. I don't know what sex ed mandates they have, but they have a lower HIV prevalence rate than Sweden does, and they are in Subsaharan Africa.....

Don't think the line is all that slim or dotted -

Freedom Lady — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 04:05:35 GMT

At least as long as real, solid science is the basis of the discussion. It has been demonstrated over and over again that comprehensive sex education, including discussion of birth control, is the surest way to achieve fewer pregnancies, later maternal age, fewer partners, etc. Living proof in the existing European nations that no long knuckle under to church influences. The line only gets murky when it starts to get smudged by religious propaganda.

Re: Swedish sex-ed classes anger Muslim immigrants

thelyamhound — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 22:10:44 GMT

The condom on the banana bit, discussions on sexual positions and alternative sexual activities though....well that to me seems like the state promoting a "well they're just going to do it anyway" style of child rearing and that is overstepping the state's authority in my opinion.

Except that some of those sexual positions and alternative activities (whatever those are; one could note that the female orgasm is unlikely to occur with engagement in at least some activities that might fall under that heading) DO have a bearing on the the sort of disease prevention you're talking about; ease of transmission via oral or anal sex, for instance, can vary in either direction from ease of transmission via the most vanilla of vaginal sex.

Agreed that parents should be in charge of any moral framing. Teachers and administrators should take care to avoid advocating for activities when they're simply identifying risks. But that line is not just thin--it's dotted.

The Constitution sets forth no bounds . . .

thelyamhound — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 22:03:50 GMT

. . . for the education system. If you'd like to argue that public education itself is unconstitutional, you might have a more coherent position from which to attack.

I'd still suggest that comprehensive sex education is necessary from a public health standpoint.

Re: KG - thanks for the research help

white light — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 21:14:17 GMT

Is it though ? I wonder sometimes.

The trouble always is those with 'power' and it doesn't really matter under what banner they stand 'power' in its self, is a corrupter and moreish and they all seam too loose track of what they wanted in the first place. Telling people what not to do could be as destructive as telling people what to do ?

'They' are always wrong footing us, 'the they's' every where, under Islam it is still a phisical dominance with us in the west it is more subtle but is it not ultimatly with the same goal in mind ? That we no longer dare, nor trust ourselves, our own judgement ? our freedom of thought ? speech ? What we tell our children ?

Re: KG - thanks for the research help

Cooler Heads — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:06:47 GMT

Indeed. And yet, in pursuit of quite different objectives.

Re: KG - thanks for the research help

Pogue Mahone — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:01:17 GMT

Cooler Heads:
Religion as a tool of the elite for oppressing the masses generates diminished returns as the masses become better educated. That is why religious fundamentalists oppose education that is not under their direct control.

Another goal shared by both the religious and the secular in this country.

Re: KG - thanks for the research help

white light — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:53:55 GMT

ie. The British Government since Thatcher !

This religion is far more wide spread in Iran than is visable I believe, it is very very interesting ;)

http://www.religioustolerance.org/zorastr.htm

In case the link didn't work Zoroastraism.

Re: KG - thanks for the research help

Cooler Heads — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:42:49 GMT

Religion as a tool of the elite for oppressing the masses generates diminished returns as the masses become better educated. That is why religious fundamentalists oppose education that is not under their direct control.

Re: KG - thanks for the research help

Pogue Mahone — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:30:55 GMT

white light:

It is easy to keep poor uneducated people down, no matter what their religion, Religion is sometimes just a smoke screen, it seams to me. Take it away and what have you got ?

Our secular government is pretty good at using the public education system to achieve the same goals.

Re: KG - thanks for the research help

white light — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:06:46 GMT

:-) I forgot to make my point .... which is that most Islamic Governments ... well all? are simply right wing dictatorships ... no different 'fundamentally' than other right wing dictatorships but the peoples religions are not always what they seam in that many keep their old religions or integrate their old religions with Islam. Iran is a good example of this .... I wonder if that is where the great changes will come from ? For there are many educated and powerful Ladies in that land. I think that there are some important. secret, talks going on in Palestine at the mo too.

It is easy to keep poor uneducated people down, no matter what their religion, Religion is sometimes just a smoke screen, it seams to me. Take it away and what have you got ?

Re: KG - thanks for the research help

white light — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:22:04 GMT

It has taken us long enough to get to where we are and we still don't have a proper balance yet, freedom lady.

Some of these lands are very complex and some ( Iran ) are very very old civilizations. I am not defending nor criticising here btw.

I do not think that we, the west are helping matters with our persecution of Islam, we are just giving fuel to the more 'fundimentl eliments.. which is probably, almost definatly the aim.

I understand your anger and it will take all sorts of pressures including anger for changes to come about from within Islam, they will come no doubt and perhaps sooner than we expect :-)

Re: Yes, I'm sure they do

Pogue Mahone — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:11:38 GMT

konark_girl:

Maybe it's a good way to clear your country of conservative Muslims, which IMO is a worthwhile aim. America should adopt this sort of sex-ed, maybe we could get rid of the fundamentalist Muslims and Christians, too!

**************************************************************************************************************

Yup, much of the deep south would start to look very de-populated :) :)

So you want all Christians to leave the country?