the true conservative:

Name one government program which is any different?

They all are. That is precisely why the government should not insert itself into areas of life that could be left up to the free market.

In a similar vein, isn't it time for you and fellow libertarian oriented conservatives to grow up?

Huh. I want to be responsible to pay for my own insurance. You want me to be responsible to pay your insurance because apparently you aren't capable of taking care of yourself and your own family. And I'm the one who needs to grow up?

Sounds to me like you're wanting to act like one of my dependents.

Name one government program which is any different?

"They all are. That is precisely why the government should not insert itself into areas of life that could be left up to the free market."

Now we are getting somewhere. You admit that your objection to government health insurance is theoretically no different than objecting to everything that the government does but that you just don't want them to do what "could be left up to the free market". So are you claiming that the free market has demonstrated the capability of of providing health care for everyone? Where is you example? What country in the world has a functioning free market health care system devoid of government involvement? Even we are totally dependent on the existence of Medicare, Medicaid and the VA system and there are still tens of millions of Americans uncovered in the remainder of the "free market". To say you don't or won't use the governments assistance (unlikely if you intend to live beyond age 65) is as irrelevant as saying you don't want to pay for the fire district because to don't intend to have a fire (and if you do you will put it out with your own hose) or you won't pay the library bond because you don't intend to read or you won't pay for the Wall Street bail outs because you don't own a bank (but I bet you own some shares of a mutual fund somwhere).

In a similar vein, isn't it time for you and fellow libertarian oriented conservatives to grow up?

"Huh. I want to be responsible to pay for my own insurance. You want me to be responsible to pay your insurance because apparently you aren't capable of taking care of yourself and your own family. And I'm the one who needs to grow up?

Sounds to me like you're wanting to act like one of my dependents."

There are two issues. First I want at minimum to contribute to my own insurance through a government option prior to age 65 because the "free market" has demonstrated that it will rip me off and you are just telling me I can't not paying for me. Second the "free market" has demonstrated that it is incapable of providing insurance economically enough for many people of less means than myself to be covered and your "free market" has no method to deal with this. So yes, some of our fellow Americans do need our help (just think of them as Iraqis who we are obligated to liberate if it helps- it is certainly cheaper) Personally I am not acting like one of your dependents. Probably we both pay more in taxes than we have received in return to date but you sound like a petulant child telling that you carry my burdens, which you certainly do not, but as sure as the sun rises in the east we both do have family members, either immediate or not so far removed, who are benefiting from government education, health care, police protection, etc. which we all collectively pay for and which most all of us will eventually use as well. You pretenses or unconnected independence is what is childish. That is why I encourage you grow up in your political views.