Oh I think I get it. I was a firm supporter of the concept of Israel (still am but as in it's original form with reparations). My change was based on just the sheer injustice of continued denial and subjugation of Palestinians for all these past years. Have you been on both sides philosophically?

So you were a firm supporter of the "concept" of Israel in its "original form with reparations" whatever the hell that might mean. Have you also been a firm supporter of the Arab's unwillingness to allow a Jewish State to exist in Israel for at least the last 60 years, or have you conveniently left that part of the equation out of what you laughingly call your "thinking" on the issue? According to you, the Palestinians are suffering simply because Israel is a nasty racist state.

Dont know where you got the 10-12 admonitions of the Palestinians from (in that speech). Maybe you can list them for us.

Sorry. I actually counted 14.

1.. . "I consider it part of my responsibility as President of the United States to fight against negative stereotypes of Islam wherever they appear. But that same principle must apply to Muslim perceptions of America. Just as Muslims do not fit a crude stereotype, America is not the crude stereotype of a self-interested empire.

2. "al Qaeda killed nearly 3,000 people on that day. The victims were innocent men, women and children from America and many other nations who had done nothing to harm anybody. And yet Al Qaeda chose to ruthlessly murder these people, claimed credit for the attack, and even now states their determination to kill on a massive scale. They have affiliates in many countries and are trying to expand their reach. These are not opinions to be debated; these are facts to be dealt with."

3. "The sooner the extremists are isolated and unwelcome in Muslim communities, the sooner we will all be safer."

4. "Tomorrow, I will visit Buchenwald, which was part of a network of camps where Jews were enslaved, tortured, shot and gassed to death by the Third Reich. Six million Jews were killed – more than the entire Jewish population of Israel today. Denying that fact is baseless, ignorant, and hateful. Threatening Israel with destruction – or repeating vile stereotypes about Jews – is deeply wrong, and only serves to evoke in the minds of Israelis this most painful of memories while preventing the peace that the people of this region deserve."

5. "Palestinians must abandon violence. Resistance through violence and killing is wrong and does not succeed."

6. "It is a sign of neither courage nor power to shoot rockets at sleeping children, or to blow up old women on a bus. That is not how moral authority is claimed; that is how it is surrendered."

7. "Hamas does have support among some Palestinians, but they also have responsibilities. To play a role in fulfilling Palestinian aspirations, and to unify the Palestinian people, Hamas must put an end to violence, recognize past agreements, and recognize Israel's right to exist."

8. ". .the Arab States must recognize that the Arab Peace Initiative was an important beginning, but not the end of their responsibilities. The Arab-Israeli conflict should no longer be used to distract the people of Arab nations from other problems. Instead, it must be a cause for action to help the Palestinian people develop the institutions that will sustain their state; to recognize Israel's legitimacy; and to choose progress over a self-defeating focus on the past."

9. (concerning Iran) "But it is clear to all concerned that when it comes to nuclear weapons, we have reached a decisive point. This is not simply about America's interests. It is about preventing a nuclear arms race in the Middle East that could lead this region and the world down a hugely dangerous path."

10. (concerning democracy) "Suppressing ideas never succeeds in making them go away. America respects the right of all peaceful and law-abiding voices to be heard around the world, even if we disagree with them. And we will welcome all elected, peaceful governments – provided they govern with respect for all their people."

11. "you must maintain your power through consent, not coercion; you must respect the rights of minorities, and participate with a spirit of tolerance and compromise; you must place the interests of your people and the legitimate workings of the political process above your party. Without these ingredients, elections alone do not make true democracy."

12. "Among some Muslims there is a disturbing tendency to measure one's own faith by the rejection of another's. The richness of religious diversity must be upheld – whether it is for Maronites in Lebanon or the Copts in Egypt. And fault lines must be closed among Muslims as well, as the divisions between Sunni and Shia have led to tragic violence, particularly in Iraq.

13. ". . .but I do believe that a woman who is denied an education is denied equality. And it is no coincidence that countries where women are well-educated are far more likely to be prosperous.

14. "But all of us must recognize that education and innovation will be the currency of the 21st century, and in too many Muslim communities there remains underinvestment in these areas.

I see you are privy to inside information? Do 1967 borders mean anything to you?

No more than they did to the drafters of UN Res. 242.

<link>

Granted it's Wikipedia, but it's a pretty good overview nonetheless.

Since when is it that Netanyahu's musings leaked by his unnamed aides become the final world on the intentions of American foreign policy. Its funny that Emmanuel is mentioned . I have always thought him to be an "Israeli insider" in Washington. If anything he may well be cut off from the real descision making on this issue and watched very closely

Careful there, you may be slipping into paranoid mode. LOL. And who said anything about a "final word." I just thought that it was interesting that he thinks the administration's Zionists are behind it. According to you and your like they are all out to get all they can for Israel all the time.

(About Mitchell) Yes he is there. So you think he has greater voice than Clinton's statement of a couple of days ago? Paraphrase her..."what part of "no" dont you understand"...no new buildings in the settlements. We'll see.

Mitchell is the guy tasked with working out arrangements, not Clinton. I fully believe that we will be seeing a US "clarification" of this matter any day now. At any rate, I fully support a call to end settlement activity subject to the opening of peace talks. For awhile anyway. Still, we'll see what actually goes down after Netanyahu's speech next Sunday. I still consider the settlements to be a side issue in actual fact even though it's certainly the Arab's favorite rallying cry.

What side issue? The settlements are built on Palestinian territory. Who asked Israel to give up their nuclear weaponry (security) or their airforce or their military. They make even get an ironclad security arrangement with us when its all said and done. This security thing is more obsfucation.

Israel's security, especially vis-a-vis a potentially hostile state on her borders can not be discussed in Nuclear terms. What good is a Nuclear deterrent when using it would obviously doom yourself? Your main problem is that you are incapable of seeing Israel as anything but hostile and never, I repeat, never seem to ever deal with the problem of terrorism and suicide bombers. It's all Israel's fault. Israel is powerful indeed, so? Just look at the problems they have with Hamas and Hezbollah and the reaction on the part of dummies like you when they finally defend themselves - you piss all over them for being powerful. I suppose the US will send in troops against the Arabs, huh? Of what earthly use are nuclear weapons against bus bombings.The security "thing" was never an obfuscation, it is very real.

As for "Palestinian territory," what territory is that? As far as I know, the Palestinians never formed a state so technically, they have no territory. Historically, the West Bank was part of Jordan, but Jordan washed her hands of it. Technically, the land was part of the British Mandate but never part of any Palestinian state. I firmly support a Palestinian state. I wish the Palestinians did too. Even as recently as 1967, Arafat rejected the idea of a Palestinian state which he did again in 2000, and today, Hamas rejects it too, unless it totally supercedes Israel.
.
Did not know there were horses equipped with suicide vests (a chuckle perhaps, no?). Do you think that just maybe those shot had no operational connection with Hamas? I have not followed the event too closely.

The claim is that they belonged to another faction, but only ignoramuses believe that anyone would carry out such a attack without at least the tacit approval of Hamas. If that is not the case, then Israel has even bigger problems as far as making peace and so do the Arabs.
And I don't think suicide vests on horses or people deserve any kind of chuckle.