I'm will reply only once to someone (keef2333) who is uncivilized enough to duck substantive debate and tell me to "keep your mouth shut".

Keef2333's use of the term "nanny state" is a dead give-away. It is a term used ( by antipodean neoconservatives ) in the English Commonwealth but not common to the US...where he claims to be from. I don't think Keef is really from or in the USA. Also, his Cadillac anecdote is a cult classic and beside the point.

The sub-text and "logic' of Keef's Cadillac story is....the poor are irresponsible bludgers who have too many babies yet manage to afford luxury cars, thus they shoud not be 'rewarded' with universal health care.

I come from a serious poverty family background and have seen the familial dysfunction that results from it (rather than being causative of it as keef implies) I don't see how depriving me of health and dental care when I was a child furthered my character and future. Children's health and dental are covered here and poverty persists in some areas and populations.

As for encouraging my adopted country ( NZ ) to outlaw private care ( what nonsense ) I said in my first post that I had health insurance ($100.NZD for the entire family - cheap due the safety net of universal health care here ) for my family, which covers specialists and surgery if there ever was what I consider to be too long of a wait for either. I have had no cause to use my health insurance but retain it because of fear bred into me by my family and national (USA) background.

I don't, as keef unkindly says, need "nanny state". I was educated, and recieved a terminal post-graduate degree in the US. I went to school on merit scholarships that took into account my socio-economic and racial background.....something I am sure keef would disapprove of as well. Due to my education I am very well paid - and use my salary to support my family in a style I never knew as a child.

The tone of your letter keef is angry. I am sorry that you live with that sort of thing. I love my country of origin - my family - on my mother's side are natives ( plains Indian ) of the North American continent - It was not an easy or wholly happy decision to leave my home country. Socially begrudging attitudes (like keef's) are a growing problem here in NZ as well.....likely influenced by imported ideological world views, mostly originating in the US. Because of these emotionally, rather than rationally, informed attitudes and views, I fear for the health and longevity of both my native and adopted countries.

Good luck to all of you.