No matter the outcome in Iraq there is only one way to judge what we did there. We "won" the war (unnecessary and planned by selfish interests) within hours of it beginning. We "lost" the occupation of that country.

Now, no matter what happens next, we CANNOT "win" in Iraq. That opportunity passed us by long ago.

Well said. The military will need to have that drummed into their heads, because what the current Military leadership and their young gung ho officers fear most, is having to live with the wrap of losing their major war. Most of the Vietnam era generals were purged from the ranks by Bush & Rumsfeld, because they knew Iraq wasn't worth the effort, but no one in the administration wanted to hear that message; least of all Vietnam War dodgers, Bush & Cheney.