I'm all for disbarring Nifong, and for making it widely known that the case against the Duke players was bogus.

But, isn't calling them "<em>nice</em> innocent boys" (emphasis added) a bit much? The fact remains, these are the kind of "boys" who trade "jokes" about hiring paid sex workers and then murdering them. Not funny. Not nice. If they hadn't been living the stereotype of the debauched, drunken, thuggish jock, they wouldn't have gotten into the situation that launched the bogus prosecution.

Wait, what's that you say? We shouldn't disapprove of their legal behavior, shouldn't say that they in any way invited their persecution? Well, maybe now you understand how millions of women have felt when told that their "slutty" behavior invited rape...

They more than invited prosecution. All the evidence points to their guilt - the prior history of abuse of women in their neighborhood (even if it was just verbal), the actual conviction for assault, the items you listed. All of these point to young men who emotionally are willing to use violence to resolve conflict - especially when the other party is weaker than they are.

Was the prosecution a long shot? Yeah.

Did Nifong push the limit? Yeah

Did he go over the limit? Yeah

Enough to be disbarred? I'm not sure. Since these "kids" are as innocent as OJ.

Oh, I call B.S. on your pathetic OJ analogy.

Yeah, they're innocent. INNOCENT. Whether you like it or not. And even, especially if you don't. Innocent. The A.G. declared it, most of us believe it, and those of you who don't only come across as politically motivated extremists with an axe to grind: You're just bitter because your metanarrative collapsed.

And FWIW? Those innocent boys came across as quite nice, too.

I agree with Auros, these kids are certainly not nice. However, these kids are definitely innocent of raping this particular stripper. It seems to me that it was obvious that they had not done so (heck, the one kid had four major pieces of evidence placing him elsewhere during the alleged incident), regardless of what else kids on their team might have done. Our justice system should be just that, a justice system. It should not be a revenge system.... DAs should attempt to prosecute in an impartial manner. Obviously that's not possible, but letting it get as far as it did in this case is not right.

We can only hope that this scared the rest of these boys into presenting a slightly better face to the world.

I'm the only person who thought that the use of the word "nice" was intended ironically.

No, I thought the same. I just chose to ignore that and take it at face value.

I rather have the impression those nice innocent boys have been through enough.

The AG was trying to keep his bar license. He HAD to show remorse.

As for "came across as quite nice" - hmm tell that to the guy who was beaten up by one of them badly enough to convict the "nice boy" for criminal assault.

Legally innocent? Yes. just like OJ.

But scared them? Perhaps into presenting a better face to the world. But not into treating women better. We know far too much about the behaviour patterns of those who abuse women. And these thugs fit the pattern to a T.

And unless they get some serious cognitive behaviour therapy (which the acquital will motivate them NOT to), they are going to abuse again.

Since when do "nice boys" get convicted of criminal assault?

Since when do "nice boys" have a history of being verbally abusive towards women?

Since when do "nice boys" hire hookers for an illegal booze party?

"Those innocent boys came across as quite nice, too."

Then there's something deeply wrong with you, just as there is with them.

tommrow night, after tonights show, ive decided to have some strippers over to edens 2c. all are welcome.. however there will be no nudity. i plan on killing the bitches as soon as the walk in and proceding to cut their skin off while cumming in my duke issue spandex.. all in besides arch and tack please respond

Like I said: Not funny. Not nice. I can't quite buy Degs' argument that they're guilty in this particular case, but they clearly were thugs.

Actually, I happen to have Marshall McLuhan right here... I did use the term ironically. But not because I don't think the boys are nice. Rather "nice innocent boys" was meant to suggest the fantastical nature of the story being spun about Nifong and his disbarment. Thanks for reading, considering and commenting. Best, David

This is one sad, sad thread. Justice? What's that? The notion of only prosecuting someone for a specific crime, as opposed to their behavior to that point? How awful!

Very few people really are interested in justice in any meaningful way. We want revenge, we want our narratives and worldviews to stay pure. We want nothing disturbing our black and white notions of right and wrong.

For degsme, nothing will do but an auto-da-fe of the entire Duke Lacrosse team.

One of them, Reade Seligman, does indeed appear to be a nice boy. There were tons of character witnesses willing to bat for him, and no prior incidents in his past. Mmoreover, he didn't live at the house, he lived in a dorm. He had the most airtight alibi of all of them, having left the party before the dancers (on a time-stamped ATM photo), made two cell phone calls, was picked up by a taxi driver a few minutes later, and swiped his card at his dorm. Despite a trail of photographic and other evidence indicating he was not involved, he continued to be pursued as a defendant. Inexplicably.

The other defendants may or may not be nice boys. The fact that one had an assault charge for helping some pals hit a gay guy sure makes it sound like he doesn't qualify. Certainly nice boys don't go around throwing parties to which strippers are invited, at least in my neighborhood, by my definitions. (BTW, I don't think any of these 3 were alleged by anyone's testimony to have ever said anything racist at this party.)

But Seligman has been, for obvious reasons, the poster child for the defense here, and I think most people now associate him with the damage done by Nifong.

don't put words in my mouth. The only part I object to is the media spin of these thugs as "nice innocent boys". Everything else - with the exception of the victim actually having a day in court - pretty much worked out the way it was supposed to. Had Nifong gone to court, the LaXers would have walked. But they were justly and rightly accused and charged.

and yeah, its gonna be a blemish on their lives, but a blemish they largely brought upon themselves.

Seligman showed at the party. and the ATM swipe doesn't exhonorate him because the photograph being used to timestamp the "pre-crime" time period did not have a valid Chain Of Custody, and hence ITS timestamp isn't meaningful. Thus the assault could have happned earlier than that photograph shows.

Was Seligman likely just caught in the net? Yeah probably. But he put himself at the scene. Kinda like the guy who's following another car at the minimum '2 second interval" despite it being glare ice on the roads.