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Shortly after my son was born, I remember listening to somebody complain about society gearing all its favors, accommodations, and especially tax breaks to parents. I thought to myself, “Oh, forgive me for doing some of society’s work.” I still feel that way. Call me a right-winger, but raising kids, if you do it right, is both a heavy burden and an important contribution to the future of your community. Somebody has to do it. I actually don’t think employers are obliged to support it, any more than they’re obliged to provide health insurance. But society, as a whole, should support both.

Quite right, I don't have kids but can see that for the idea of Civilization to be meaningful it's institutions must favor Civilization's future over the very important individual futures of it's constituents. I do not think it is "right wing" to suggest that our Civilization does not favor families, the statistics you cite this moring are strong evidence that this is the case. It has been said that "we are all conservative", the question is whether we are conserving the past or the future.

"Oh, forgive me for doing some of society’s work.” I still feel that way."

First, I didn't ask you to take on that burden. Just like you didn't ask me to volunteer at a shelter. Yet, parents complain endlessly. There have been some interesting articles written that one of the most helpful things I can do for ppl like you that want children, is for me not to have them. There will be more of the scarce resources left for yours.

And to skew all of society's benefits towards those that have children is unfair (then again, I know where the intent comes from). Saying that those of us who don't have children 'don't have a life' outside of work, or don't deserve to have one is patently ridiculous.

When I was in the military I was on birth control. Felt being military and a parent was not a good idea. I received birth control from the med. clinic; six month supply at a time.

When I went in for a refill I discovered the pharmacy was only dispensing one month's supply at a time. The reason was they were trying to save money because people might not take all their meds and that was wasteful.

I complained that they were birth control pills, if I didn't take them I might get pregnant (please, no san-like assumptions, I was and am married). I received a lecture from some fat, greasy SSgt about how much birth control would cost me if I had to go downtown to a civilian pharmacy.

So here's my point. Any idea how much having a child costs the military? Pre-natal, OBs, lost work, well baby clinics, sick baby clinics, and on and on. But what I got instead was a lecture.

I do not intend to be lectured on how someone has to have and raise babies. No someone does not have to. You choose to have children and that is your responsibility. I've paid school taxes for my entire working life and did it with good will because the future generation is important. But I also dedicated my life to my vocation of military service. I no more expect to be celebrated for that then anyone having children should be celebrated.

I fully expect to hate mail because I don't hold children as a sacred duty. Call me a left-winger but more mouths to feed in this world are a burden on society and not necessarily a contribution.

I congratulate those who are willing to take on the awesome responsibility of raising children. I wish many of them would take that responsibility a bit more seriously and raise decent kids. But they get the benefit of tax breaks regardless. Funny how many right-wingers are petrified that tax dollars might go to schools or New Orleans but will defend their tax breaks to the death.

There are two sides to every story. I pay my taxes so those with children can have their tax breaks and (hopefully) better schools. I will continue because that is the law. But don't lecture me on your great duty to your country and community. I did my duty too.

How are you doing society's work by raising a child? That is a choice that you make. Society doesn't tell you that you have to have children because we need you to take on the heavy burden of contributing to the future of your community. Why should society as a whole support your choice? Maybe the somebody who has to do it should be someone who actually wants to have children to enrich their lives not consider them a burden or have them for the extra benefits they can get. Children are a blessing and a joy.

I have two beautiful girls that I have raised right and I never considered raising them a heavy burden. Frustrating at times maybe but never a burden. It takes commitment and sacrifice to raise children and it is well worth it.

military service too. So, what's your point? We are all in this together. No one required that you serve. You enlisted on your own; same as I did. I'm somewhat embarrassed every time someone thanks me for my service. I'm the one who was priveledged to serve my country. I'm the one who was thrilled that I could live up to my ideals. I do have to say the work I'm doing as a parent seems to me a heck of a lot more important now, than my time in the US Army. But that may be part of the biological changes that happen in a brain when you give birth.

It seems to me so odd that we're getting caught up over who is celebrated and who is doing their duty and who is "doing society's work." I am a (gasp!) yuppy who is years away from having children, but I don't understand the bitterness that pervades the posts of those who are childless. If you have a child, the law says that you are responsible for another human life; employers and the government should make all reasonable accomodation to ensure that that responsibility is well executed. If it isn't, all of society will suffer to some degree, whether the child can't behave in a restaurant, becomes a delinquent burden on the state, or ends up a murderer. Those who do not have children are responsible only for themselves under the law and thus probably require less accomodation. No employer should judge your doctor's appointment less important than that of your co-worker's young child, and if that's the case then you have a legitimate bone to pick, but I don't think that's what we're referring too here. The poster who said we're all in this together was absolutely right. If you can't play tennis in the evening or are unable to take full advantage of the local happy hour, no one suffers but you. Stop your damn complaining and realize that our societal endeavor is bigger than just a collection of individuals.

Today's (American) society is increasingly fragmented. Add in tendencies toward individualism, plus sheer numbers (with 300 million+ , what's a few people without kids), and I can see why some people feel having kids is a choice, not a duty.

I agree that having kids both costs and benefits society, but when every man feels himself to be an island that's a hard sell to those without kids, who feel increasingly alienated.

This is a nice freedom, by the way, for those who want it; you can opt out of the stroller brigade & feel that society will keep humming along anyway. I hate to think of the external or internal pressures that would have to arise for this freedom to evaporate!

this has somehow devolved into a mildly spiteful conversation. hopefully i can eschew my personal emotions on this to make some point.

from the perspective of a person who likes kids (and has worked with them for many years as an educator, nanny and mentor) but doesn't want to have them, parents do seem to take this whole "but i'm improving society's future" role far too seriously. parents are not the only influence on kids, even though it is extremely valuable to have loving, educated parents teach their children how to interact with the world.

my beef is merely that i will never get the same respect for the things that are important to me and that help change the world (my volunteer work, my care for my animals) because parents have decided those things are not as valuable. i fortunately have a job with great flexibility, but not everyone has the opportunity to take off work for reasons other than their kids' health.

in essence, parents, we respect the work you do when you raise your children to be socially conscious, polite, fun loving, creative entities who will improve the world. but you have to recognize we all have different roles to fill in making the world better and that your contribution is not inherently more valuable or deserving of benefits.

be a good parent and raise a kid that is a benefit to society is a lot of hard work. But just because my neighbor gave birth to the kid, it doesn't let me off the hook for that kid. As I said, we are all in this together. You've been an educator. Sometimes it's people like you who reach a kid who has a crappy parent(s). It's not just my kid. My kid is your kid in the sense that someday when we are old and moldy, she and her peers will be making the decisions.

When I was only an aunt, I busted my butt to make a difference in the life of my neices and nephews (especially to the ones who were being raised by my alcoholic sister) and it's paid off. Even the ones with the hardest burdens have turned pretty good.

I keep on trying to get people to understand that every kid is our future. Leaving the work up to just the parents is a mistake. I've taught in classrooms too and seen a few kids that I've helped. I remember a few teachers in my life who had a huge impact on me. I remember people who were just family friends, who had a huge effect on who I am today. Maybe they didn't know it, but they were important. Like I said, we are all in this together.

Saletan:

I thought to myself, “Oh, forgive me for doing some of society’s work.”

While I didn't object to tax breaks to parents before, I think your statement has made me rethink my stance. Come on now, you didn't sit down with the missus and say, "Well I think it's time we faced our obligations to society and pop out a few replacement workers." You had kids because you chose to have kids. As you made this choice, it's your work to raise them, not society's. Kids are expensive and I don't object to my tax dollars going into the effort of training them to be useful members of society, but I've never had patience with the martyr complex that some parents exhibt.

Saletan:

Call me a right-winger, but raising kids, if you do it right, is both a heavy burden and an important contribution to the future of your community.

So is being a doctor, nurse, teacher, fireman or even a garbage man. Maybe they deserve special tax perks as well. Not only that, but I'm not entirely sure at this point having more children is a net benefit to society. Sure, raising children who exist is, but we don't really need more people. Expecting kudos for raising your own children is sort of like expecting kudos for cleaning your own room.

Keep your tax breaks, but don't whine to me about the burden's you've chosen. In return, I won't whine about Quantum Field Theory or the aggravating students I have to deal with, as those are my burdens.

Saletan:

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Shortly after my son was born, I remember listening to somebody complain about society gearing all its favors, accommodations, and especially tax breaks to parents. I thought to myself, “Oh, forgive me for doing some of society’s work.” I still feel that way. Call me a right-winger, but raising kids, if you do it right, is both a heavy burden and an important contribution to the future of your community. Somebody has to do it. I actually don’t think employers are obliged to support it, any more than they’re obliged to provide health insurance. But society, as a whole, should support both.

I think the modern age needs to examine this carefully. Don't misunderstand what I'm about to write here: I believe women should have absolutely equal rights as men to pursue careers, etc. But the fact is that in past generations, the burden of parenthood was greatly reduced by the fact that one parent stayed at home.

You could say that living today is so expensive it requires two incomes to afford some degree of comfort and opportunity for your children, and I would agree. But I think we need to really address this as a community issue. I don't have a problem with parents getting tax breaks, though.

I think this is one of those areas where we have the unfortunate tendency in the American discourse to constantly push us towards false dichotomies. Look here: I am happy that more and more people feel empowered to live unmarried lives, I am glad that societal pressure to marry and start a family has lessened, and I think less marriages means less unhappily married people and a stronger institution of marriage. (And, despite the conventional wisdom, there is lots of evidence that marriage is stronger than it has been in a long time.)

I also believe in the institution of marriage for those who choose it, think that stable families and marriages are good for society (whatever their composition), and think that it is absolutely in the interest of our country to continue to subsidized marriage and child-rearing. Why can't we support both? I recognize that it is frustrating perhaps for unmarried workers or those without kids to not get the same range of benefits the married do. But the suggestion that the subsidies make raising a family a net gain in money or free time is ridiculous. And, seriously, stop whining. Maybe the problem is the sense of entitlement which has filled America with people who feel like they shouldn't have to make any adult decisions that require tradeoffs or personal sacrifice.

In return, I won't whine about Quantum Field Theory or the aggravating students I have to deal with, as those are my burdens.

And yet, you just have.

Maybe the problem is the sense of entitlement which has filled America with people who feel like they shouldn't have to make any adult decisions that require tradeoffs or personal sacrifice.

That's a pretty ironic statement. Some of us would say that some parents seem to have an irrational sense of entitlement simply because they're parents.