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Iran/israel collision course
by newshound98

Does anyone out there realize how close we are to a nuclear world war? Consider this: Does anyone believe that Iran can ever be negotiated out of its nuclear program? Given its open and continuing threats to destroy Israel, does anyone believe that Israel will not preemptively strike Iran's nuclear production facitilies by a date certain if the West is unsuccessful in negotiating the mullahs into a verifiable cessation of their program by a date certain (Mossad - and now the CIA - believe that a nuclear weapon will be produced in operable form in Iran in less than one year)? Where does this all leave us? What we have witnessed is the morphing of what began as a liberalizing movement within the structure of Iranian theocracy into a full-on pursuit of regime change which will, like China with Tienenman Square, inevitably fail through force of arms against the unarmed citizens in the short run - and right now there is no long run. If anything, the ruling mullahs and the Revolutionary Guard have been heartened and hardened by the demonstratively and inevitably ineffective response of the West to the post-election protesting, but, as I said, that movement is doomed to fail in any event. More urgently and importantly, It was reliably, if quietly. reported last year that: (1) Israel has run 3 secret and one very public test missions right up to Iranian airspace in preparation for a preemptive strike; (2) Iran has SAMs in place, so, unlike Syria and Iraq, Iran will take down a significant portion of the Israeli air force used in the raids (30% is the Israeli estimate); (3) Iran's nuclear facilities are dispersed around the country 25 stories underground in hardened concrete, so low-yield nuclear-tipped "bunker buster" bombs will have to be used to accomplish the mission's goal, hence, the first nuclear attack in history; (4) Achmadinejad has said that any Israeli attack on Iran will be considered an attack by the US and that Iran has 40,000 (as of 3 years ago) suicide bombers already living in the US waiting for instructions - plus, Iran will respond by closing the Straits of Hormuz - through which 40% of the world's oil passes on a daily basis; and (4) the American admiral assigned to the US fleet in the Gulf has responded by saying that closing the Straits would be considered an act of war. And then the reporting stopped, just before the November US elections. Obama was elected POTUS and Netanyahu, an even greater hawk than Olmert, became Israel's prime minister and has been giving Obama no real respect regarding the latter's peace plan for Israel and the Palestinians, which, after 60 years, has suddenly been relegated to secondary concern by the Israelis. Its now primary concern? Iranian nuclear capability. The recent Israeli attack on Hamas in Gaza was nothing if not an undisguised message to Iran, who supports Hamas, of the Israeli intent to "disproportionately react" to external threats and its willingness to spill huge quantities non-Israeli blood in its defense. And, if necessary, to shed Israeli blood as well. Now, under the circumstances, Obama was correct in not giving full-throated approval and support to the recent Iranian protest movement because it was doomed to fail and such comments would have only provided justification for the accusations of the mullahs as the uprising having been fomented by the West. And besides, who in the world does not know that the US tacitly supports ANY liberalizing or regime-changing movement in Iran? But, in the world we now live, does all that really matter? Have we reached the point where there are questions without answers and problems without solutions? All this nonsense about mutual respect and playing nice with the mullahs will never engender positive results as we are dealing with madmen who are on a mission from Allah to restore the caliphate in Persia and beyond. Even Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Syria and other Arab states fear Israel now less than they fear Iranian hegemony in the region and secretly support the prospective Israli mission if it becomes necessary. There is no basis for rational negotiation with the powers that be. Stay tuned. I have come to believe that the world is in for a very bumpy ride over the next 6-12 months, and the Iranian protests were just a thinly-sliced sample of what lies ahead.

Re: Iran/israel collision course
by gmat
sure, but first thing, think about paragraphs.

next.

Does anyone out there realize how close we are to a nuclear world war?

Between whom?

Does anyone believe that Iran can ever be negotiated out of its nuclear program?

low probability, but greater than zero

we have witnessed...the morphing of what began as a liberalizing movement within the structure of Iranian theocracy into a full-on pursuit of regime change

full on? I'd have to first see a general strike that included the oil exporting sector.

...hence, the first nuclear attack in history

the third, actually

[Israel's] now primary concern? Iranian nuclear capability.

Can't blame them. Sounds like a serious threat. To them. But they can handle it.

...we are dealing with madmen who are on a mission from Allah to restore the caliphate in Persia and beyond.

I've heard that one, too. But I just read an op-ed by Bolton that indicated he, of all people, thinks they are rational actors, adding his voice to such Israeli notables as Reuven Pedatzur and Tzipi Livni.





Re: Iran/israel collision course
by Polmanic

Any theories on why Iran who are not arab and not sunni muslims would want to destroy Israel whose fight is with the Palestinians who tend to be pluralistic (but admittedly mostly muslim and sunni)? The rest of the arab countries including the Islamic world are 85% sunni muslim. So, this can hardly be a religious slugfest.

Did you know that sunnis and shias are the equivalent of catholics and protestants? They rarely worship together and tend to have their own mosques. And that George Bush had no idea there was such a sectarian existence or divide?

What is the rationale then of the Iranians attacking Israel? What do they get out of it? I am not even sure if your caliphate mumble is a shia quest?

Re: Iran/israel collision course
by Neolefty
Does anyone out there realize how close we are to a nuclear world war?

There is no danger of a nuclear war. If Israel attack Iran, it will be because they don't have nukes.

Does anyone believe that Iran can ever be negotiated out of its nuclear program?

That woudl only be of consequence if there was a nuclear weapons program, and there is no evidence that one exists. As signatories to the NPT,. they are entitled to a nuclear power program.

Given its open and continuing threats to destroy Israel

Iran has NEVER threatened to destroy Israel and what's more, the majority of Israelis ss well the Tzipi Livni, believe that Israel could live with a nuclear armed Iran.

Mossad - and now the CIA - believe that a nuclear weapon will be produced in operable form in Iran in less than one year

Rubbish. 2 months ago, Dennis Blair testified before the Senate that all US intelligence agencies continue to stand behind the 2007 NIE, which stated Iran has no nuclear program and that Iran is dissuaded to pursue a nuclear weapons program due to the costs and consequences.


Achmadinejad has said that any Israeli attack on Iran will be considered an attack by the US and that Iran has 40,000 (as of 3 years ago) suicide bombers already living in the US waiting for instructions

Baloney. What evidence is there of 40,000 suicide bombers already living in the US?

Israel's prime minister and has been giving Obama no real respect regarding the latter's peace plan for Israel and the Palestinians, which, after 60 years, has suddenly been relegated to secondary concern by the Israelis.

Rubbish. Since coming to office, Netenyahu has been blatantly trying to shift attention from the peace plan to Iran as a means of stonewalling.

All this nonsense about mutual respect and playing nice with the mullahs will never engender positive results as we are dealing with madmen who are on a mission from Allah to restore the caliphate in Persia and beyond.

Pure racism, ignorance and islamophobia. Iran has been helping us in Afghanistan and Iraq for 6 years.

Even Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Syria and other Arab states fear Israel now less than they fear Iranian hegemony in the region and secretly support the prospective Israli mission if it becomes necessary.

That's because Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan are ruled by tyrants who rely on US support to remain in power. Syria has no reason to fear Iran.

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