5. White and black firemen have different cultural heritage and different family structure, which results in a quantifiable difference in work ethics and desire to study.

Surely, this argument is not racist.

A test of #5 is to see how other racial and ethnic groups are performing. For example, if there is an ethnic group, which was undeniably discriminated against for a long period of time, which was considered to be dumb and which was relatively uneducated in the past, at some point was able to rise above the majority population both in educational achievements and material status - then hypothesis #5 has a pretty good support.

that racial pimping is a proper science - and not astrology. Why should I assume that "racial bias studies" are closer to empirically provable physics and not, say, astrology?

Nowhere have I said I know as much about the subject as someone in the field. But as it happens, I am a professor of medicine, and have some pretty good background in psychology and in epidemiology. So if you can't even illustrate and explain it to me, but insist on saying "sorry, it is way too complicated and specialized... you couldn't possibly understand..." I'm inclined to call bullshit.

It is many moons since I did post-grad math (though I did, to masters level) so, I might have a shot at being able to follow a physicist (if he or she was not too pompous to boher trying...) as they souoght to explain their field. Doesn't mean I claim that I could shoot holes; I still expect someone to be able to give plausible illustrations, or I tend to doubt they understand what they are talking about.

So - once again: if you can't give examples of biased questions, and plausibly explain why they are biased, I can only assume you can't... and that you're full of it.

Race piming? I see so scientific research that disa grees with your beliefs is race pimping. UHUH.

Your bigotry is showing.

You can evaluate physically experiential negative situations pretty easily (torture). That's very different than being able to understand alterantive cognitive states.

If you want plausible examples, here's 18,500 of them should be a good starting point.

BTW your list of four explanations demonstrates your lack of understanding:

5. White firefighters scored higher becuase they were coached and given resources minorities were not (Hispanic FF testified to this in front of the CSB)

6. Questions were relevant to the educational backgrounds of white firefighters and less so for blacks and hispanics,

7. White firefighters had an in with IOS and got a preview of some of the questions.

That none of these occurred to you, demonstrates the bias you bring to the evaluation.

Better explanation (and one that at least one NH FF testified to before the CSB) - that retired white firefighters who got their positions when racism was legal, coached the white candidates who did better.

But only white candidates.

"racial pimping"

At last the Truth Wills Out. Your bigotry is showing.

...er: you might note that I noted "The white firefighters scored higher because the tests were biased in their favor..." as an option. That covers all the scenarios you cite.

You incapacity to answer the question I ask is becoming laughable. A reference to "18,000 articles" is bullshit. Since you seem to be so wise about all this, it shouldn;t be hard for you to construct a couple of plausible questions, and explain why they are biased. It's becoming apparent that you can't...

...and your pretentiousness is showing. The phrase is "the truth will out." It is from the Merchant of Venice. Try reading a few more books before trying to lecture the rest of us.

I offered you a chance to explain why the race pimping shit you are selling here has any validity. You cannot show any evidence to prove it.

So f. typical. Go and have sex with Jesse Jackson...

Well good! You have a shot at following a physics prof. But then you also know how dangerous a diagnostics manual can be in the hands of an untrained person. how quickly "diseases" start appearing.

And that's the same problem here. You could start with the 18,500 articles on Racial Bias in Aptitude tests But why not do what you want your patients to do - accept your diagnosis as that of an expert. An expert they perhaps want to double check with another expert, but not one who's expertise itself is questioned or denigrated

and not, say, the race pimps? What EMPIRICAL evidence separates them from the snale oil sellers and the astrologers? Oh, I am sorry, you cannot come up with any?

BTW, I take your 18,500 articles on racial aptitude tests and beat it with 1,510,000 which talk about aliens and ufo. <link>

They even have the photographs of the aliens. Heck, man, aliens just beat your race pimps by a factor of 100. Sucks, right?

NickBanglo:

So if you can't even illustrate and explain it to me, but insist on saying "sorry, it is way too complicated and specialized... you couldn't possibly understand..." I'm inclined to call bullshit.

You're making this much too complicated. From Degsme's perspective, his conclusion is the correct one, and if you agree with it, you understand the situation. If you do NOT agree, then by definition you either do NOT understand the situation, or are deliberately acting in a racist fashion.

He does not feel he HAS to prove anything, because the fact that blacks didn't do well is proof enough. Any proof YOU offer is just part of a larger white conspiracy to keep the black man down, whether you know it or not. He's a True Believer, and no fact is going to shake him from his belief -- until it's HIS kids or grandkids that are affected, perhaps.

gringo_911:

and not, say, the race pimps? What EMPIRICAL evidence separates them from the snale oil sellers and the astrologers? Oh, I am sorry, you cannot come up with any?

BTW, I take your 18,500 articles on racial aptitude tests and beat it with 1,510,000 which talk about aliens and ufo. <link>

They even have the photographs of the aliens. Heck, man, aliens just beat your race pimps by a factor of 100. Sucks, right?

You know, I'd bet that if a space alien wanted to work in the NH fire dept. "the government" would find the funds to get them the job. Ricci would have to sue all over again.

There are two reasons I don't just accept this stuff....

First, the social sciences are suffused with political prejudices. In that sense, they often share more with lit crit than with mathematics, chemistry or physics.

Second, I want to know if ther person I'm debating with actually knows his or her stuff.

I can happily give you an unibiased question. Here's one:

What is the square root of 49?
Is it (a.) 9 (b.) 7 or (c.) 8

The question I keep asking is, can you give a single example of a question that is biased? (Ideally, one that would be subtley biased, one that someone might actually get past an HR department.)