(be warned, tis long...)

As a dude with a raging asian fetish (sufficient to justify, in part, five years of living in the far east) I am getting a little tired of people telling me that I am some sort of deviant for being attracted to girls of different race, that I am after sexually "submissive" women, and now - apparently - that what I am really after is prepubescent males, and that asian women are some sort of substitute. There seems to be a strong temptation for to assign labels and motivations to people you've never met simply based on their dating preferences. So, instead of me being a faceless (and apparently misogynistic) category, let's have me be an actual person and explain to you what's going on in my head.

I'm not entirely sure why or how I came to be attracted to asian women; it seems to be an intersection of attaction to physical traits (I always preferred dark hair and dark eyes, even before the onset of yellow fever - guess I'm not a gentleman) and a formative highschool experience with a certain Japanese girl (still the most beautiful thing I've ever seen, as well as the most awe-inspiringly intelligent, talented, etc..). Some how this developed into a very strong, permanent preference. I certainly was not handed it from pop culture (which has been telling me that I should want skinny blondes for as long as I remember) or from retrograde sexual stereotyping from 50 to 150 years ago, as virtually everyone would seem to have you believe.

So, what's attractive to me about asian women? It's primarily physical: the shape of face, those deep brown almond eyes, the cascade of fine, jet black hair. The way they look when they smile. It doesn't have anything to do with them "looking younger" (though they certainly do); I have always preferred girls my age (though, who knows... maybe that will change as I get older. heh.) Nor is it about being petite (I prefer girls to be about my height, and I like curves), and certainly not about being boyish or flat (I prefer my j-birds with big racks, when possible - how's that? double the sexism for you!) I am not, not, not looking for "submissive" in the bedroom or otherwise. Intelligence is the single most attractive quality in a woman, and I want some one who has an opinion. Some one who can not only debate my highly argumentative self, but kick my ass doing it. I'd worship that kind of girl (same goes for physically - if their are any large breasted ninjas out there who can beat me in chess, I will marry you immediately and make lots of babies!).

Am I attracted to "asian culture"? Like to watch anime? Yes. I am very into eastern culture, history and language, especially Japanese. However, those interests developed after the asian fetish, not before (though the history thing dovetailed nicely with my love of history in general). Moreover, I would never assume that a girl would have any "cultural" trait or background simply because she was Asian... I'd be rather surprised, for example, if a Japanese American girl was heavily influenced by Japanese culture given the high rate of cultural assimilation of Japanese Americans post-WWII. Anyway, even if you could tell what the girls ethnicity was from her looks (extremely unlikely) who knows what her personal background and experiences might be? People, including Asian women, are individuals and you get to know them as such.

Am I exclusively attracted to Asian girls? No. I'll date any girl that I find attractive, irrespective of race, nationality, etc... I am frequently attracted to non-asian girls, and generally prefer the same traits (intelligence, dark hair, etc... but, hey I like blondes too, and you don't need to have large breast or be a knock-out or a rocket scientist, just to be special in that indescribable, unquantifiable way that causes attraction. Also, as you might expect having a nice personality, sense of humor, and not being evil help). I do want to say, however, that the last few times I sat in on one of the debates - on self proclaimed feminist or racially-oriented blogs - it seem a prerequisite for all the responders to say that they "date the rainbow" and that they gave no preference to any particular color there of. I found that rather infuriating. People have physical preferences - my ideal fantasy girl happens to be Japanese, that’s all, rather than "tall" or "long legs" or "redhead" or whatever. I don't see what is wrong with admitting that, rather than pretending that I have some sort of blindfold on. I struggle seeing the difference, especially when it isn't a "choice" but rather a basic and primitive emotion we are talking about here. I think the best way to conceptualize is as a kind of scale, whereby your subconscious calculates "hotness" by adding up points awarded for different attributes (this many for intelligence, that many for a pretty face or a fit body). If you are asian you get 5 bonus points. Think of it as affirmative action. None of the translates into a conscious decision, mind you. I never sit down and say "well, they have to be asian." ("But you moved to Japan!" you say. Indeed, I did. But it wasn't just about the girls, there were lots of other "legitimate" reasons as well. Furthermore, there is a difference between having an image of your "ideal mate" - all of us do - and finding a real person to share your life with. I want to fall in love, get married and have kids. It doesn't matter what ethnicity my partner is... I'll find her, and when I do nothing else will matter. But I don't believe in "destiny" or the idea that there is only one "true love" out there for you. I could fall in love with anyone. But, in the meantime, if I can increase the chances of finding what I imagine is my "dream girl" by the simple expedient of moving, then why shouldn't I?)

There seems to me, two serious, legitimate concerns that people (especially women) have when it comes to the subject of "asian fetish" - itself a massively loaded term which means very different things to different people. 1) First is the sexual exploitation of asian women, which indeed has a very long, sordid, and and on going history. There are certainly a lot of guys out their that do fit the stereotypes - the ones that bought into the "submissive oriental sex doll" myth (these are the sort of gentlemen who would have been curious to see if that snatch really was sideways 50 or so years ago), the sex-tourists, the love'em and leave'em college boys looking to try something exotic, the drooling otaku anime nerds. (Just take a look at some of the comments here about asian women being so much nicer/better/less materialistic/bossy/whatever than western women. Yeah, those guys are jerks. Similarly, the guy who walks up to you in a bar and declares he likes asian women is bad news.) And there is no denying legacy of the sexualized and exoticized east (just take a look at the total misconception of geisha in the west). 2) Secondly, there is the fear - held by many asian women in the US - of be objectified; of being loved not for who you are as a person, but for your inclusion in a category... and thus being not being appreciated as a real person, and ultimately being replaceable. After all, if he just likes you for being "asian" what is to stop him from discarding you for another, interchangeable "asian".

I'm not here to say that this is a bunch of feminist BS. These concerns are real. But I have a real hard time believing that the majority of men, especially those of the upcoming generation operate in this manner. There are a lot of people (here and elsewhere) that would have you believe that a white a white guy with an asian girl (or worse, one that actually admits to "liking asian girls") is by default a creep and an exploiter. If you demand that people see you as an individual - rather than stereotyping you by gender or ethnicity - then you must demand of yourself the same. Furthermore, it is important to recognize that a lot of this "asian fetish" backlash (much like the backlash against black men dating white women which is quite common in the african american female community), while having many legitimate historical and social justifications, also contains an ugly racial undertone of "they are taking our men", and a lashing out against perceived categorical rejection. It’s a terrible tragedy to abstract any loving relationship between two individuals into some broad, misogyny laced trend. I will agree that anyone who says "I would never date a black girl" or, conversely "I only date black girls" is in the wrong. (Just as anyone who says I will only date blondes, tall men, etc... is) Ultimately it is the individual that you pair with, not the superficialities, and anyone who rules out swathes of the population in such a manner is seriously damaging their chance at true happiness.

I guess what I'm saying is, don't be so quick to judge, because you can't tell the difference just by looking. Many of us are just nice guys that think asian girls are cute, and were perfectly happy when it works the same way on the other end. People should be able to be with people they are attracted to, and not have to apologize for it.

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Some left-over issues to discuss:

1) "Fetish" is a massively loaded term. I have used it to indicate merely an unusually strong attraction to certain physical characteristics, but I am well aware that it means very different - and very negative - things to some. The language we use is important in these conversations, so certain things need to be spelled out, lest the message get confused.

2) In the same vein, "asian" here is, as you have probably guessed, used to mean "east asian", especially "Japanese/Chinese/Korean" - this is the common usage in the US. (as opposed to the UK where it commonly means south asian, esp. Pakistani). I am well aware that not all "asians" are a like physically or otherwise, and furthermore that their are many "types" of Japanese - I have lived here for a long time. I say this because I have heard accusations that saying "I like asian girls" essentially means you are ignorant of differences between different ethnicities. "I like asian girls" is - I would hopefully think obviously - a short hand and the speaker pretty much always has certain physical "types" in mind when he say this, but you wouldn't normally expect - or want - him elaborate on the subject.

I am also getting tired of the following:

3) People who make declarations about "porn" and then rapidly make it apparent that they haven't any real exposure to the medium. Last time was a feminist going on about how there are always chopsticks in asian porn. Yeah, what porn are you watching, lady? Certainly isn't the same that I am. (Not that that sort of cheesy stereotype exploitation doesn't happen - but seriously, always? Not even "most of the time".) Another side issue here is the fact that - while I know girls that are very much into their porn - generally, men and women tend to approach pornography from two very different, almost alien perspectives. There are a lot of basic assumptions that need to be checked in such a conversation.

4) The lip curling sneer of “submissive.” What, exactly does this term mean? I put to you that there is a large difference between being submissive during sex and submissive in you personal or professional life. I’m quick to deplore submission in the “always defer to your husband/where’s-my-dinner-woma­n/here-wear-this-burqa-sense, submission in sex? Sex and attraction are weird, weird things. There are many people who like that sort of things, on both ends of the equation. Who am I to judge? Obviously, if you are forced to suppress your desires for those of your partner, the relationship is unhealthy. But what about mutually consenting adults? I have friends that are into BDSM. There is a whole underground (not so underground anymore, mind you) S&M scene. I have heard it said that in dom/sub relationships that it is really the submissive that holds all the power, who decides what and how far the dom can go. I can’t confirm this, but “submissive” is definitely another term where basic assumptions need to be carefully examined. Obviously, I agree with the wider point that one should not assume – based on stereotype – that a women will be submissive simply because she is asian, either in bed or out. (heh. Interestingly, while Japanese women may have this stereotype even in asia, Chinese women assuredly do not…)

you're right about Chinese women. Very bossy! Even those who love them know this is true.

Notagain, It's really nice to see someone with this type of preference who isn't a thoughtless pig and I think you explained yourself very well. There a couple of things that still trouble me. It sounds like your early sexual experiences may have had a big influence on your later preferences, which is something that happens and I can't argue against it. You say that saying "I like Asian girls" is a sort of shorthand, but I guess I still don't quite get how you can say that you categorically have a preference for a "type" of woman without it being influenced, however subconsciously, by some sort of stereotype? Honestly, I think just about everyone harbors these kind of categorical preferences whether they like to admit it or not or whether they are even aware of it. Why not just acknowledge that people can still be subconsciously prejudiced, even if their honestly held conscious beliefs are not racist/prejudiced/whatever?

You say you like the physical features of Japanese women. I assume you acknowledge that not all Japanese women have the same physical features and that some of them wouldn't be considered attractive by most people, including yourself? This is a troubling part of your post for me-- the lack of acknowledgement of diversity of appearance.

The most troubling aspect of your post to me is that you would go so far as to move to Japan with part of the intention being that you find a Japanese girlfriend. Even most people with an avowed cultural/racial preference wouldn't take it that far. You said you had other motivations for moving there--what were they? Do you just really like Japanese culture? Did you get a job over there?

Sorry if I got any of the facts wrong, I only read the post once. Overall, I really appreciate you taking the time to write this post. But a lot the reason for the frustration over the "asian fetish" is that a lot of men who have a preference for asian women are frankly sexist, racist pigs and they are proud about it. Those same men go on and on about how horrible white women are, how they age horribly, how they are bad wives, etc. As a white woman who has had to deal with a potential "asian fetish" in a partner, I have to admit that it does feel like a slap in the face to find something like that out and I hope you understand how that could make someone feel inadequate and insecure (in my case my reaction was a bit overblown and went on for too long, but I'm prone to insecurity and low self-esteem).

Thanks for the response, philosophin.

In reply to your questions, I cannot, of course, categorically say that I am not subconsciously influenced by stereotypes... but I have a hard time understanding what this sort of influence could be acting on me. As I said, I don't find submission attractive, so it isn't that. What else then? I carry no grudge against western/white/american women whatsoever (unlike many of the more angry male asian fetishist posters here). American girls rock! (especially the asian ones, heh). I have a good number of female friends, American, international, asian and otherwise. So, what stereotype do you imagine is influencing me? That asian girls are physically exotic, what ever that means? Do I find them attractive because they are different? Maybe. But I like white girls too! So, what does that mean? If anything, the major influence (beside conforming to certain physical preferences which I also like in non-asian girls) would be those formative experiences. Not just the Japanese girl, actually. My first ever crush was a Native American girl. My fist real love was a Chinsese girl, all of them incredibly brilliant and talented. That probably has more to do with it than anything.

I tried to hit your second issue down at the end. Yes, I am very much aware that Asian girls, including Japanese ones span a wide range of physical traits (not to mention personality wise). I have lived here for 5 years, after all. It's hard to accuse me of not being familiar with the people or the culture. Many of my Japanese friends are female, and of many different ages. There are plenty of Japanese and asian women I don't find attractive, but overall, its a plus like I said.

Yeah, the moving thing was a bit extreme, I admit. But I genuinely love the language, culture and history independent of the j-ladies. I have studied it extensively. I travel all over, going to temples and historic sites. As to other motives, there are a bunch of them. I wanted to travel (something which I hadn't done). I wanted to see the places I learned about. I wanted not to lose the language skills I gained in college, but to improve them. Most important of all I wasn't sure what I wanted to do with my life. I wanted to stall, to avoid making the big plunge into the rest of my life. I didn't feel like being in the US (which I dearly love, BTW) that I had any direction or goal. So, yes, I saved up my money, got a job and moved out here. I wanted to be here, and when I got here I knew that this was the place for me. (thats not to say I feel "Japanese" but rather, just being here is like a goal in itself. Have you ever been somewhere and said, yes this is where I should be?) So now I am planning to come home, go back to school and put myself on a career path that will bring me back here permanently, I pray.

I can completely understand your frustration re: asian fetish assholes. Believe me, I share it; there are lots of those guys who come out here (its much easier than you might think, or was till the crash...). I hate getting tarred with the same brush because of my particular preferences, and I hate sitting in on these conversations being the butt of insults and insinuations. This is the first time I've been brave enought to stick myself out here like this to try to explain. But in the end it doesn't matter. I'm not ashamed of myself, and I couldn't change if I wanted to (which I don't). Sometimes I feel like I was hardwired wrong. And I know I can't be the only one.

An interesting aside: speaking of "types" of asian girls, often notice that, physically speaking, I don't go for the sort of asian girls that are often pushed by western media, fashion mags, etc... turns out my preferences - which were formed long before I came to Japan - match much more closely to the popular standards of beauty here. Don't really know what that means.

LOL,,,I know that's right about Chinese women being bossy. I was at a Chinese Restaurant last week and this lady was yelling at her husband back in the kitchen. I was laughing inside wondering, "what did he do now?". And then as she comes out to take my order, she has this big smile and speaks to me in broken English. I date a Vietnamese and her family was the "warren buffett" of finance. If there is one thing you can learn from Asians, that is how to save money and run a business.

You're all wrong about Chineses women being any bossier than other cultures. There are many hen-pecked husbands in every culture. When women do this, it's considered normal. When men do this, it's considered out of character and abusive.

Australia, right? I KNEW that's why Tom and Nicole divorced!

Ian Blokesworth, Captain Feathersword, they DO sound similar. Wonder why I didn't notice that before?

I know I never found men 'different' enough from me, even though i'm straight - i can't see myself as that far removed from a man really - so i deliberately exoticised people from other cultures. It's mainly language - if i don't know it you're fascinating, if i do i'm not interested, if you're black/whatever british - dull. Slavery (US) seems to be have been powered by sexual myths, from the 'female beasts' (sex slaves) in the brothels to the 'they'll rape our pure white women' thing. Older gay man declared that he always dated people vastly different in age from him, young and old, preferably foreign, because 'when you're too similar to make it exciting enough'. I think it is kind of natural, as well as cultural. Mainly I suspect racism is powered by, as opposed to arises from (probably xenophobia), sexual motives: how else could something so obviously untrue last so long?