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Europe is a dramatically different place. I should know...
by robot-rock
+5 Reply

I lived in Italy. I am moving to London in a couple months. I've been following European politics closely for many years.

European politics are dramatically different from the US. The issues that predominate and the line that divides the political parties are completely different. Even though Europe is closest to the US in terms of core political values -- freedom of speech, democracy, rule of law -- there is a whole range of issues that separate us from them.

Xenophobia for one. Immigration to Europe -- from anywhere, let alone the recent waves from Africa and the Middle East -- is a relatively new thing. Europeans are accustomed to having closed societies without any diversity whatsoever. One religion; one language; one set of national value stretching back for centuries. Consequently, there is a very strong ethnocentric current that runs through every European nation. Many of them eye foreigners (even ones from other European countries) with a degree of suspicion. Hence, the consensus on immigration and European unification are, by American standards, extremely right wing. Nationalists win seats in the European parliament because many Europeans both fear the notion of sharing power with nations who were until recently their adversaries. Consequently, the European Constitution keeps losing. And Berlusconi can win the Prime Minister spot in Italy by appealing to nationalist tendencies and not so subtle hints that foreigners are unwelcome.*

*(Not to mention Berlusconi's direct ownership of several national TV stations and newspapers, indirect control of the national public TV stations, and whatever deal he has made with the capo di tutti capi of the mafia. That's not an exageration by the way. Many prime ministers -- possibly all of them -- have made deals with the mob in order to secure electoral victories in the highly corrupt southern half of the nation.)

By contrast, with respect to fiscal policies, Europeans are the epitome of the American left wing...and then some. They have universal health care, a robust welfare system, high unemployment compensation, large disability payouts, guaranteed paid vacation, strong labor protections. You name it, they've already got it. And just about everyone is pleased with it. So when Sarkozy rallies on the notion that France needs to reform its bloated welfare state, he's not actually talking about Republican Party "small government." His reforms would still place him solidly within the far left wing of the Democratic party.

So any apples to apples comparison of European and American politics cannot be taken seriously. That, incidentally, may explain why Applebaum's essay is so full of provisos, conditional statements, and *asterisk-worthy statements that the overall point is near impossible to comprehend.

If I had to draw a conclusion on the recent victories of the American left versus the European right, it would be the following:

(1) On fiscal policy, we are moving closer together. The conservative parties in Europe want to halt and curl back some of their most excessive social programs. Why? Because an excess of such programs curb necessary economic growth. Meanwhile, Americans increasingly see the value of additional programs. Why? Because they see their "poorer" European and Canadian neighbors eating better, living longer, and having more fun. The end result is that we look more and more the same on these issues.

(2) On social policy, well, Europe and America are becoming more disparate. Europeans of all stripes do not like immigrants. Meanwhile, America is built by immigrants. Europeans fear greater unification of the continent. By contrast, Americans long ago recognized the value of a true federal government; nowadays, politicians pay only lip service to "states rights" while forging straight ahead with a national social agenda.

Europe is different for sure....
by intersurfa

...they expect action over there, and get it. In the US? Politicians get elected to a term and sit there holding court serving their self-interest. Not that European politicians server their self-interest, but, except for Britain, they are expected to shit or get off the pot. That's the benefit of a parliamentary system, they actually got to do something or dissolve. Besides, Europeans are hard workers, and smart workers, they have a standard of merit over there that's foreign to Americans.

It is totally amazing that 23 countries speaking different languages with different cultures and different histories can even get together and form a political union to any extent. On the other hand, you can't defy mother nature and expect to get everybody happy speaking a 23 different languages. LOL So, the EU really does defy mother nature. Maybe all that should be left of the EU is open travel, and open markets, but each market managed by its own country. And, the BIGGY, every EU country's citizen will have to vote on EU membership, or it will never be legitimate. The forgone conclusion is, if its citizens vote, the EU will dissolve.

Re: Europe is a dramatically different place. I should know...
by gunsmoke

robot,

On social policy, excluding immigration, Europe is very liberal and non-religious. Many of the nationalist fears is that the current influx of immigrants are conservative and religious Muslims. The US is more conservative overall than Europe, no naked commercials, but also respects basic liberties. The US has a better balance between liberty and conservatism, whereas Europe has more clashes between social extremes liberalism and conservatism.

Re: Europe is a dramatically different place. I should know...
by CrystalKnocked

Hi. Muslims in the UK are bragging about England becoming an Islamic Nation, in a few decades. London itself is not 60% non-White. Whole towns are now Pakistan West. Is this a good thing? I mean, why would little, tiny, brilliant England want to become an Islamic sewer?

France is destined to become Islamic any minute now. The alien Hungarian Jew Sarkozy was elected on a Le Pen Lite platform, and promptly sold the French eletorate out. To Arabia. "Youths" never stopped torching things, as well as attacking the actual French. Poor French girls MUST submit to the burkha, if they want to avoid gang rape and worse. These sorts of things are happening all over Europe. The Fruits of Diversity. I think fear of foriegners is HEALTHY.

The USA is about to break apart, along ethnic lines.The eunich "Governator" of Mexifornia is threatening to cancel Welfare freebies to the millions and millions and millions of Mexicans resding in the State Formerly Known as California. The rioting and murder that will ensue will make the horros of Katrina look like the antics that ensue at a toddler's birthday party. Please tell me how this "multi-CULT-ism benefits the USA?

Re: Europe is a dramatically different place. I should know...
by Odinabisco1
Without making any assumptions about your country of origin, I would like to make the point that where I live in the U.S. was New France longer then it was Britain, and as an American city it has held home to generations of southern Europeans, eastern Europeans, Jews, east Asians, southern blacks, and increasingly hispanics and Indians. Amazingly, our "mult-CULT-urism" failed to result in anarchy, but did create the biggest industrial power house the world has ever seem, saving Europe from her own tyrany not once but twice. Perhaps if Europe lived up to their own Enlightenment values that were imparted to Paine, Jefferson and Franklin and then taken to their logical conclusion by Americans from any number of places around the world, you wouldn't think of ethnicity as being some sort of inevitable, predetermined, essentialist, metaphysical thing, but simply as how people look, talk and eat. Honestly, if France holds the values of "Liberty, Fraternity, and Equality" generations from now, then their Revolution was succesful, regardless of what hue those Frenchmen look like. And if France is some sort of Islamic Republic generations from now? Then it is as much the fault, if not more, of all the "real" Frenchmen who were unable to impart those values to the generations of Arabs, Africans, Algerians and Vietnamese who immigrated to the Empire's home after Europe had unjustly stuck their nose in the bussiness of those nations for centuries.
the US broke apart long ago.
by intersurfa
when certain ethnic groups moved to town and laid the place to waste, the good folks moved out. Now that the inner city has drugged itself out of existence, the city is getting 'gentrified' slowly but surely again. But, if you want to live some place nice in the US and raise your kids there, you move to a 'nice' area. And, true, the Americans there will be from all different backgrounds and today different races. But the ethnic origin doesn't matter, what matters is their mode of behavior. And that is what the problem is with Muslim immigrants in Europe is, and some others, they just want to do what they do at home, destroy things around them that they dont agree with. It is like bringing people in from the middle ages into a modern civilized society. It won't work. Ever. The immigrants need to do like the Europeans do, or go back home.
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