What surprises me about the auto dealerships is that none followed or copied the idea of no-haggle pricing that Saturn used. I've read that it is one of the most popular innovations in the auto industry in the past 25 years. Customers love it so why not do it? I've purchased two Saturn cars and I love the fact that I paid the exact same amount for the car as someone in another state would. Nor does it matter what gender I am, race, religion, age or skill at haggling. I paid the same price I had calculated previously on the website. And the Saturn salesman didn't give me that stale old line of "Let me ask my manager if I can go lower, be right back!" (which another dealer tried on me.)

This idea of two dealerships for the same company competing against each other always struck me as strange. If only they followed the Saturn example they might not be in as big a hole as they are.

-Doughdee222

"I am a realist, not a pessimist. The real world is pessimistic by nature."

Some dealers did follow the Saturn model (remember, they are independent businesses. The manufacturers can't tell them what to do about selling)

It turned out that most people apparently liked to haggle. You don't see too many dealers with the no-haggle policy anymore. What people say and what people do are two different things.

And even Saturn had some haggle opportunity with the trade ins.

My son's first car was a Saturn, it was a great car, and we didn't even need to co-sign for it with him, (he was 20 at the time).....they treated him really well.....but GM abandoned the Saturn line, and let it go as stale as their other brands to pursue Hummer's! ....now they are getting rid of Saturn....they deserve to go down in flames! But not Saturn, if fiat was smart, they'ld buy out the Saturn plants and fold them into fiat in America...

I was surprised to hear that Gm was getting rid of Saturn because I thought it was its best product line. They even have a Hybrid SUV.

You may not like to haggle, but I think it's been established that customers of no-haggle dealerships pay more, on average, than customers of regular dealerships.

So how many thousands is it worth to you to not have the headache of negotiating with the dealer?

I would never buy a car under those circumstances. I can deal with fixed price shopping for items that cost less than $100.00, but there is far too much profit margin in an automobile purchase to relinquish negotiation. Bashful folks like yourself just make it possible for ordinary folks like myself to get a better deal that way. Sorry.

I know, and they are...because GM exec's are incompetent boobs! =0)

You're kidding, right? Did you ever sell cars? Do you really think most people LIKE to be lied to, manipulated, coereced, and ripped off? The truth of the matter is it is far more profitable to start with a massively inflated price and do a huge dog and pony show with lots of smoke and mirrors to delude mushrooms (car sales lingo for 'consumers kept in the dark and fed B.S.') into thinking they're getting a really good deal. The other part of this equation is 'if you let the buyer leave, he's spending his money elsewhere' coupled with 'your paycheck is in that customer's pocket and it's your job to get it out'.

Even if you were successful at negotiating a fair price at the table, you need a Harvard law and a Yale business baccalaureate to find the fluff and bogus 'fees' and 'charges' the "nice" people in the backend of the dealership write into the contract. Follow that up with multiple tiers of interest you're paying if you don't buy it outright. And don't even get me started on those shady (downright fraudulent) 'extended service' plans.

What's the next gem of wisdom you've got? The banks really want to help you have a good credit rating?

I don't think that customers like to haggle, I think they expect to haggle b/c everywhere else they go they have to.

I work at a specialty truck dealership and we have a strict policy of cost+ pricing. The owner hates screwing the customer's around and he likes to treat them as he would like to be treated. (THE GOLDEN RULE.) We only make enough over cost to pay the salesmen's commission, which is a set commission, and other bills. We publish our prices outright.

Unfortunantly, everytime a customer comes up they ask what the asking price is and then what the real price is and everytime our sales people would have to tell them about our cost+ policy. They have to explain that we are not in the business to screw our customers and would like their repeat business, unlike other dealerships who only think short term and try to squeeze out as much money out of them as they can.

So in essence, you may be partially right, the customers only like to haggle is to try to keep themselves from being screwed over in the end, but if ALL dealerships would adopt the cost+ policy, then they wouldn't have to have that fear and can trust that they are paying a fair price.

Quote from authors article.

Nevertheless, Chrysler and GM and other auto manufacturers must maintain a large, costly field force of trainers (to train technicians to fix cars), salespeople (to persuade dealers to buy more cars), and auditors (to verify claims for reimbursement)

Response from someone who actually has seen dealer operations.

Training is paid by the dealer billed monthly,

those so called salespeople are not persuading dealers but forcing dealers to take unwanted vehicles (an example would if you want the special order dodge charger you need to buy these 20 dodge caravans in our inventory, or if you want any incentives (cash back for the customer) you need to buy x number of vehicles that at are not moving and sitting here at the factory, etc. so they actually end up making money for the factory by moving unwanted excess product.

The auditors pay for themselves and then some by denying claims and charging full cost back to the dealer. One example replacing the injectors on a GM duramax diesel can cost up to $4000 dollars under warranty to the factory, forget to include proper documentation or correct documentation even if the job was done correctly and fixed the problem, the dealer gets charged back the full amount parts and labor.

Go talk to some dealers and find out the true costs of running a dealership and how the manufacturers make them pay for almost everything from the cars in the lot to the guy washing the windows so you can present an article less biased to the factories like GM and Chrysler.

Some dealerships did follow the Saturn theme of no-haggle pricing and they were forced to return to the old fashion way of ripping the customer off.

Why? The competition was complaining that they were being under cut as other stores had higher costs to cover.

I believe in the Saturn concept. You can move more inventory at a lower profit than having to beat down the customer and maybe make a sale.

CARMAX for example sells more used cars than several dealers selling anything of the lot, why, no-haggle pricing. I’ve bought several vehicles from CARMAX!! Why, I did not spend hours on end haggling over this and that. Then getting fleeced again by the F&I person. Once you nail down the vehicle you can be out of the store in under an hour. And the way the process flows is incredible!! The delivery bay is like an assembly line.

The consumer does't want one price ... if they did there's one price on the

sticker established by the manufacturer !!

The consumer wants "their price" so dealers have to negotiate to try to reach

the customer's price ... thus the haggling back and forth .

Most any dealer would take window sticker price for every car on the lot !!

Also, most people have a trade ... and it doesn't have an established

price so negotiation sets that as well

thanks

as a 20 yr auto industry veteran, allow me to shed some light on a few areas.

Buick & Olds tried the "no haggle" approach in the mid 90's & it flopped. The dealer profit was a flat $500-1000.00 per vehicle. 90% of the customers wouldn't pay the "window sticker" Price. We would explain it till we were blue in the face. It just didn't work. People will tell you they don't like to haggle. They tell us to just give them the "rock bottom" price on a car. When we price it @ 100.00 over cost, they'd then want to haggle & offer $500.00 less. If we didn't lower our price, they would accuse us of "not dealing". Then the customer wants to trade in a car that has tape over the "ABS" or "service engine soon" lights so we won't see it. I see this at least 3 times a month @ our store. Private owners are the most dangerous people to buy used cars from. They will never tell you the truth & will stick you & the dealer every time.

Most dealers would love to have a no haggle policy. Remember, salespeople are not paid by the hour. Carmax has a no haggle policy. However, unless a car they are selling is still under the manufacturers warranty, they will only give you a 30 day or 1,000 mile "limited" warranty. GM Certified predriven vehicles come w/ a 12 month/12,000 mile new car warranty. Carmax mainly sells previous rental cars. They sell price. Well, I'd rather have the oats BEFORE the horse eats them.

We live in a time where anyone can walk in to a dealership w/ a copy of the invoice in their hand. How in the world can that person think they are being ripped off? It used to be that people would offer $100.00 over invoice. Now they offer 3k under invoice & want retail for their 90,000 mile trade in that smells like a wet dog has been living in it. Don't even get me started on what a car smells like after 100,000 miles of being smoked in. That is a "sale-proof" car! Oprah Winfrey can make $300 Million a year off her advertisers & she's a hero. If car dealers earns $1,000.00 on a new car, they are called crooks or whores? Well, a car dealer can bulldoze his building, sell the land & put the cash in a savings account & earn 4% a year. But let him build a building & provide 100 people with a career & he isn't allowed to earn a fair profit?

It's time to stop car salesman bashing. This isn't the 1960's or 70's. Consumers today are the most well educated & informed group ever. Lets face it, if every dealer said, I need $1,000.00 profit per car to maintain my facilities & employee training, etc., maybe 1 out of 10 would be willing to pay it. People want selection, service & a nice shopping environment. However, they have no idea what that costs to provide. That's why this country is losing thousands of unprofitable dealers. Now, the strong dealers who have always provided a quality sales & service experience, will finally earn the profit they deserve.

I wouldn't bash auto sales people except that they are *so* sleazy. The last two cars I've been involved in buying have been terrible experiences. At the first dealer the key to our trade-in was spirited away and it required much cajoling to get it back. We spent a lot of time cooling our heels in the waiting room while the salesmen went back for fictional meetings with his boss. I have no complaints about the car, but will never go back to that dealer. Unfortunately, the options are to buy from them or travel much further to the next dealer, or buy a completely different brand of car. More recently we bought a used car. It came with one key fob and the dealer assured us he could get the other, but he lied. The brakes were squeaky and we were told that was because the car had been sitting on the lot. Turns out the dealer had put in really cheap brake pads that were actually starting to damage other brake parts. The dealer refused to make the brakes right so we had to get that work done ourselves. And this is from a major dealer, not an independent lot. Salt of the Earth.