enter the fray: our reader discussion forum
Search in:
Advanced
View:FlatThreaded
"Wretched excess?" Only to a wretch.
by Hellzapoppin

Great little article; I suppose it seems blindingly obvious, but I had always wondered whether ceilings were at an 8' standard just because of drywall dimensions. I never liked the proportionality of that height. Unless I am chillin' with Frodo in his sweet Shire crib, this delicate flower can't stand anything less than 8' without feeling claustrophobic. Like so much that came of everyday post-war architecture, the point escapes me.

Thank God for the greatest generation's sacrifices, but damn, they liked their architecture boxy, windowless, and short.

Re: "Wretched excess?" Only to a wretch.
by nelson46

You have a good point about the post WWII era, I have always disliked turn of the century and post WWII homes for their low stair ceilings. I'm tall and I hit my head all the time on these low ceilings.

I do like nine foot ceilings, and ten is fine, so are the interiors with 12 feet from scissor trusses, but when they get taller than this and have wasted space I have a problem.

Re: "Wretched excess?" Only to a wretch.
by GingerF

Personally, I would love to chill with Frodo even though I like my tall ceilings. That being said-- there are benefits to lower ceilings. From a green standpoint it talkes less energy to heat or cool smaller rooms. Also it takes less materials to construct small domiciles. Enough logical thinking though-- I NEED TALL CEILINGS! Sorry for screaming but really--doesnt' enhanced mental health balance out the enlarging of our carbon footprint? I agree only a wretch would enjoy hobbit like rooflines.

Re: "Wretched excess?" Only to a wretch.
by Hellzapoppin

I know the rationale given is that "people were shorter" then, but they couldn't have been that much shorter! Given their modest construction, those old homes can still have lots of charm--even occasional flair--but I find it hard to believe that they could have used more closet space in the old days. And so many people were converting their basements to living space--so why build basements with 7 foot ceilings?

I think we see almost the reverse with the prefab trends these days--exciting, innovative conceptions and very useable spaces but dreadfully bland (or worse, pointlessly avant garde) designs. And I do like "modern," but I recognize not everybody does. The "hominess" isn't there.

I completely agree about the wasted space. Rooms which rise to the second story seem to be a feature of many new homes. It can be done well, especially if it is a room which sees a lot of use, or if there is a flow of living space in the upper area (e.g. balconies, lofts). But too often it's a mere ostentation in a living room no one uses. Adding insult to injury is when it's fenestrated as if there were a room on the second story too.

Re: "Wretched excess?" Only to a wretch.
by Hellzapoppin

Hey Ginger I'm all about believing there is an enhanced mental health benefit to higher ceilings! :-)

I think today's windows and construction materials make up for some of that energy efficiency. And there are so many unobtrusive ways now to "green" a house in it's construction--including reservoirs able to store rainwater for gardening, or passive solar heating. Solar panel technology itself is ingenious these days--not what it was in the 70's, when interest in solar power peaked way too early.

Re: "Wretched excess?" Only to a wretch.
by Hellzapoppin
Hellzapoppin:
I find it hard to believe that they could have used more closet space in the old days.
Sorry--"couldn't have used more closet space."
Re: "Wretched excess?" Only to a wretch.
by KB01

Hellzapoppin:

...but I find it hard to believe that they could have used more closet space in the old days.

It probably varied city-by-city but where I live, they used to assess property values based on the total number of rooms; of which, all but the tiniest of closets were considered rooms when it came to taxes. I think too, people just had less "stuff" in general and also relied heavily on armours which acted more like portable closets. We have one that my grandparnets used to own and it takes up an entire wall

I live in an American Foursquare from the 1910's. Based on the original floorplan, there are only two closets in the entire house, leaving one bedroom w/out one entirely.

Re: "Wretched excess?" Only to a wretch.
by KB01

nelson46:

You have a good point about the post WWII era, I have always disliked turn of the century and post WWII homes for their low stair ceilings. I'm tall and I hit my head all the time on these low ceilings.

That pretty much describes our house. It was built in 1915 and has very tall ceilings, except for the staircase right before the first landing. I still don't understand why it was built like that, as they could have just adjusted the staircase over by 6 inches and it would have been fine; the hole on the second story floor just isn't quite big enough...


Re: "Wretched excess?" Only to a wretch.
by Then she said...

I live in an American Foursquare from the 1910's. Based on the original floorplan, there are only two closets in the entire house, leaving one bedroom w/out one entirely.

I grew up in a 1905 farmhouse. The ceilings are quite high, and there are two closets. My parents carved out a section of the kichen to make a pantry, and chopped a bedroom in two to make a good sized walk in closet (they also converted two bedrooms into bathrooms). That house would have fit about 20 people, but I have no idea where they would have kept a change of clothes or taken a shower.

From a green standpoint it talkes less energy to heat or cool smaller rooms.

Interestingly enough, the opposite used to be true. My parents' house has very high ceilings and very large windows, specifically because it relied on ample breeze to blow through the house on sweltering southern afternoons. Today, since a heating and air conditioning system has been installed, it's an insulation nightmare, but it was a truly energy efficient design in the days before people were using enough energy to be concerned about efficiency.

Re: "Wretched excess?" Only to a wretch.
by Junggai
GingerF:

Personally, I would love to chill with Frodo even though I like my tall ceilings. That being said-- there are benefits to lower ceilings. From a green standpoint it talkes less energy to heat or cool smaller rooms. Also it takes less materials to construct small domiciles. Enough logical thinking though-- I NEED TALL CEILINGS! Sorry for screaming but really--doesnt' enhanced mental health balance out the enlarging of our carbon footprint? I agree only a wretch would enjoy hobbit like rooflines.

Not to burst your green little bubble, but your assumption isn't really the case. I live in a 150-year old apartment building in Vienna with thick stone walls and at least 13-14 foot ceilings. Without an air conditioner, summer is quite bearable. And yes, not feeling cramped is GREAT for my mental health.

No need for snark or shouting, indeed.

Re: "Wretched excess?" Only to a wretch.
by palmcanoe
I live in a 1932 house (in West Texas) apparently built on a Sears kit plan -- two bedrooms and one bath. The ceilings are about 8' 4" and there wasn't a sheet of drywall anywhere in there til we put some up. -- so it can't have just been a post WWII invention.
Re: "Wretched excess?" Only to a wretch.
by Guylinder

I was recently looking at a realty website in Sweden and the apartments all had taller ceilings and longer windows than those common in the US. The apartments looked so much brighter and airier than your typical US apartment. Probably a good thing in a country which gets little sunlight in winter. I think a lot of people feel better psychologically with larger windows and ceilings, though the two-storey height in McMansion entry foyers just feels like empty space. There's a point where added height becomes excessive.

I recently added a new living room to my small vacation house and put in 12 foot tray ceiling with skylights. My energy costs this winter were actually lower. The added sunlight heated much of the downstairs during the daytime. In summer, I intend to open the skylights and the windows to catch the breeze and use a ceiling fan when necessary. I don't have air conditioning.

Re: "Wretched excess?" Only to a wretch.
by Doc Holliday
"...where I live, they used to assess property values based on the total number of rooms; of which, all but the tiniest of closets were considered rooms when it came to taxes."

This interesting, where I live, a room without a closet is not counted as a 'bedroom' no matter what you cram into it.

When I was in college at ANU, the houses I lived in had armours, rather than closets. They took up space. Other than that, I rather liked their charm...

A point everyone is overlooking is that a roof with a steep pitch, means less water or snow, will build up on it. I have a 12/12 pitched roof and don't need to shovel snow of it in the winter, as many of my neighbors do with their homes with almost flat roofs. Because of the 12/12 pitched roof, I have a loft that doesn't have a closet, so it isn't counted as a "bedroom", even though I sleep up there...
Re: "Wretched excess?" Only to a wretch.
by Sundown
Excellent point about pitched roofs. Live anywhere that gets lots of snow and look at the older buildings with their steep rooflines. Snow is really heavy and if it's allowed to build up the roof will eventually collapse. (After every major winter storm you'll see big box stores with their flat roofs caving in.)

My area also requires a built-in closet to officially count as a bedroom, but the turn-of-the century farm house I grew up in only has tiny closets and their construction suggests they were put in a few years after the house was built. But it was designed to stay cooler in the pre-AC era thanks to high ceilings and plenty of windows on all sides to let the breeze in.

Interestingly enough, Frank Lloyd Wright's "prairie style" incorporated lower ceilings and flat roofs but those characteristics aren't very well suited to anywhere with hot summers or snowy winters, which describes much of the Midwestern prairie.
Re: "Wretched excess?" Only to a wretch.
by ohdear

You must live somewhere that has substantial sunlight in the winter. I live in the Pacific Northwest in a rambler with 8 ft ceilings. One thing I've noticed is that our heating bills are much less than those of our neighbors with ceilings at newer more stylish heights. Plus we actually keep the house several degrees warmer. Since we don't have air conditioning, I can't comment on whether or not that would cost us more in summer.

View as RSS news feed in XML