You'll notice that Spock wasn't the captain... Kirk was.

And there's a very good reason for this. Spock's adherance to logic was a flaw, not a virtue. He was unable to accept the uncertainties of the universe and adapt to it - you'll notice that when he is put in charge of something (such as the Romulan Peace Treaty), he inevitably screwed it up because of this limitation.

Kirk may not have been 'coldly logical', but he was an effective leader precisely because he understood the limitations of logic. While a rational person, he was also able to operate based on his experience and intuition to actually solve problems.

Great Treky point! I couldn't have came to that analogy on my own. I still confuse Star Trek with Star Wars.

...is that because the bible and your imaginary friend in the sky tell you star trek and star wars both the work of the devil to make you think we are special and the only life in the universe...?

Swine_SARS wrote the following post at 05/19/2009 10:28 AM:

...is that because the bible and your imaginary friend in the sky tell you star trek and star wars both the work of the devil to make you think we are special and the only life in the universe...?

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Ask Obama, he is the one who thinks he is the imaginary Spock who is the only one in HIS universe!

alicemarie:

Swine_SARS wrote the following post at 05/19/2009 10:28 AM:

...is that because the bible and your imaginary friend in the sky tell you star trek and star wars both the work of the devil to make you think we are special and the only life in the universe...?

------------------------------­-------

Ask Obama, he is the one who thinks he is the imaginary Spock who is the only one in HIS universe!

...[sigh]...Dickerson called Obama Spock...Obama didn't refer to himself as Spock...

If anything, the picturen of Obama is funny!

<link>

alicemarie:

If anything, the picturen of Obama is funny!

<link>

...Obama's quoted words from your "source"...

"Now, movies I've been doing OK [with] because it turns out we got this nice theater on the ground floor of my house … So Star Trek, we saw this weekend, which I thought was good. Everybody was saying I was Spock, so I figured I should check it out and--[the president makes the Vulcan salute with his hand]."

...please point to the exact phrase where Obama says, "Call me Spock," or "I am Spock"...I'll wait...

...I like that they are so deperate for attention they offer people the chance to submit it to news collection sites at the bottom of the article...haha...lame

So couldn't we get back to the stuff that's really important to rightwingers? Like, say, "MustardGate"?

Uh...

Spock actually was the captain until Kirk was re-beamed aboard (a highly doubtful stroke of luck) by a decrepit version of Spock after being shot out of the ship like a turd due to his conduct. In which he then managed to upset and get his ass kicked by Spock... who in turn relinquished his command to re-evaluate himself. Initially, Captain Pike was in a hurry to have Kirk removed from the room in reference to Kirk's insistence there was a trap awaiting their arrival. To Spock's credit, he DID say "He is right." But ultimately guys, this IS a movie and these characters as well their strengths, flaws, and dialogue are all created by humans. So make of it what you will.

In "the canon" as it is called, Spock never bore the burdens of command. Xando is right, and I wrote a post similar to his which, for some reason, never displayed.

If "Obama is Spock" that's not a compliment. A commander can't dither around doing "on this hand, on that hand" -- a commander must decide.

We're not talking about logic here - we're talking about empathy! Empathy is an essential quality in a leader. By showing that you genuinly understand the other person's point of view you are implicitly asking them to understand your position and how you arrived at it. It usually disarms the other person and enables you to get them to see the issue from your viewpoint. It goes a long way towards getting your position accepted. If you genuinly understand the other person's point of view and you feel it has merit you may strenthen your own position by adopting that person's input to the issue/argument. A good leader will have the courage to do that if the balance of the conflicting issues merits it. That's the leadership Obama is showing.

Nonsense. It wasn't Patton's empathy that kicked the hell out of the Hermann Goering SS Panzer Division in Sicily, it was his superior grasp of tactics and his ability to make good decisions in the fog of battle.

Empathy for a military commander lies only in an ability to say, "What would I do, if I were the other side's commander" and then counter those moves. Assuming you're a better commander than he is, this would lead to victory. If he's better than you, however, the outcome will not be in your favor.

Spock only ever had command of a starship temporarily, and even he said he lacked the correct temperment for command. Obama is the elected president of the United States. I've not yet seen him display command temperment, but more philosophical wonkiness (that isn't meant as a criticism, just an observation). Philosophy has its place, of course, but it is seldom a place of command.

trapdoor:

Nonsense. It wasn't Patton's empathy that kicked the hell out of the Hermann Goering SS Panzer Division in Sicily, it was his superior grasp of tactics and his ability to make good decisions in the fog of battle.

Empathy for a military commander lies only in an ability to say, "What would I do, if I were the other side's commander" and then counter those moves. Assuming you're a better commander than he is, this would lead to victory. If he's better than you, however, the outcome will not be in your favor.

Spock only ever had command of a starship temporarily, and even he said he lacked the correct temperment for command. Obama is the elected president of the United States. I've not yet seen him display command temperment, but more philosophical wonkiness (that isn't meant as a criticism, just an observation). Philosophy has its place, of course, but it is seldom a place of command.

Yes, trapdoor. A good military commander MUST be able to "empathize" with his adversary commanders. It's the ability to understand his thinking and motivations that is the key to making good predictions about what he'll do next. For a general to have such empathy does not remotely imply that he'll let the other side off without a fight. It just implies that he'll understand how to find the best advantage for himself in a given situation.

I find the whole arguement moot.

Spock is fiction, Obama is reality.

It could be years before we see the results of Obamas actions and words. Whereas, Spock had TV time or a two hour feature film to see the out workings of decisions and actions.

If we are going to analyse the actions of the man and office can we stick to real people and real cultural philosphies? I love Spock, but he's played by and actor. Obama is yet to be revealed.