According to what I've read about Cope India there is an even more important "lesson learned." The USAF aircraft suffered worse-than-expected loss rates largely due to a lack of supportive air intelligence. For example, the USAF is used to operating with AWACS and a full panopoly of national technical systems and theatre backstop, etc. In Cope India there was more strictly "fighter on fighter" engagements (or with minimal ground control) and the US pilots were not able to leverage their usually superior intelligence (provided by AWACS, etc.) into decisive victories. One of the lessons was apparently: Absent the typical U.S. superiority in intel/information, U.S. aircraft and pilots will have real problems 'dominating' developing nations --- many of which are acquiring good aircraft and training very good pilots.

Of course, this ties directly into the F-22 funding question. If we buy more F-22s, how much *less* are we going to be able to buy in terms of AWACS, ground radar, data-links, etc.? Even with top-notch electronically scanned radar, fighters are vastly more dangerous when armed with data from theatre and strategic intel sources. Would it be better to go with F-15s and complete support, or would the F-22 and skimpy support do better? When trying to size up airpower you can't just look at the fighters.

"If we buy more F-22s, how much *less* are we going to be able to buy in terms of AWACS, ground radar, data-links, etc.? Even with top-notch electronically scanned radar, fighters are vastly more dangerous when armed with data from theatre and strategic intel sources. Would it be better to go with F-15s and complete support, or would the F-22 and skimpy support do better? When trying to size up airpower you can't just look at the fighters. "

Our adversary's know this tactic as well. what's to stop them from targeting our AWAC s first, thus hindering our F-15's which require the downloaded intel. Then an F-22 with an updated SATCOM data-link which is not hindered by the loss of our AWAC fleet becomes a more self sufficeint and capable and reliable weapon

fozzy,

One of the capabilities the F-22 brings to the table is to act as a "mini-AWACs" for lesser capable aircraft. The idea is that instead of the pilot spending a lot of time flying the plane and hot-dogging it like in a tradition fighter jock, the pilot can spend more time as an air-warfare tactician, surgically taking shots at targets while also sharing his sensor information with surrounding less capable aircraft (like F-35s, F-16s, F-15s, etc)

True enough, but while the F-22 sensor suite is impressive it still can't compare to an AWACS and the full package of support. And of course, if the F-22 is too expensive there won't be many "less capable aircraft" for it to share sensor data with. The Air Force may be digging itself into the kind of hole the Navy seems to be in: On one hand, a "hi-lo" mix would be nice. But the "hi" end is costing so much there probably won't be a "lo". Just as the Navy's ship numbers are plunging, the Air Forces aircraft numbers will probably plunge, and the question then becomes whether a small number of super-capable/expensive units can replace a larger number of more inexpensive ones. Quality is nice, but numbers aren't irrelevant. And it's not just sensors. Munitions aren't cheap, and if we have to skimp on guided missile inventory to buy airframes we could find ourselves in a real pickle. It appears they've put AFI 65-503 behind a password, but IIRC the AMRAAM was running over 1/2 million a pop. Lord knows the Air Force won't give up any golf courses to pay for anything... ;-)

Any idea what it costs to support and fly an E-3 Sentry? Perhaps weening our fighters off of the teet by putting better avionics suites on them and not relying on a 40 year old decrepit airframe full of 1970's technology would be a plus.

When an aircraft spends more time incapable of flying than capable....it is time to cut the bait. It is no longer considered a worthy investment of taxpayer dollars...unless they want it mounted on a stick somewhere. It's a shame we can't buy today's aircraft at yesterday's prices.....I just wonder what it would cost to retool and rebuild brand new F-15's with F-22 avionics suites....can bet you it won't be as cheap as you think.

Reminds me...the Navy did try this with the A-6. F-18 avionics package in an A-6....plus a little tweak here and there.....notice the A-6 is no longer with us.