Let's discuss Cherokee for a moment. I have caught some flak here for my challenges to some of Cherokee's posts. But I believe in a free forum and I believe we have the right, even the obligation, to challenge that with which we disagree or distrust.

You claim that no one really understands what you and other Vietnam Vets went through in the war. I think you are wrong. I think most people, myself included, understand what the troops in Vietnam had to contend with. I certainly am sympathetic for and understanding of the sacrifices you guys made. But we must, to be intellectually honest, separate the bullshit from the reality.

If you have read Cherokee's posts, as I have, over the last year or so...and if you will be honest with yourself, you too will see that his musings and his ramblings are literally filled with inconsistencies. Look at this post:

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Cherokee states that he was originally drafted but could not get into the Air Force or the Navy so he joined the Army. That simply does not make sense. My question is: Why could he not get into the Air Force or the Navy....they were accepting recruits in those days? And if he was drafted then which branch of the military drafted him and why was he forced to join the Army?

Then he states that he was hoping he could get out of going to Vietnam because of his IQ score. If he joined the Army, and he had to know that, in those days, joining the Army meant a tour in Vietnam...then why was he trying to get out of going to Vietnam. If he is so proud of his service, why was he hoping he could avoid it?

He claims to have been wounded badly at the end of his first tour and yet he claims he went back for a second tour. If the wound was as bad as he says then why would he have been allowed to do a second tour?

Cherokee claims to have gone to college, and yet his writing, grammar and sentence construction, reads like something a third grader might write.

Also, he continually makes inane posts with obscure references and disjointed statements that make little sense.

He harps and dwells on the fact that he bled in Vietnam and pretty much dismisses anyone who did not bleed for the country as not worthy of holding an opinion.

Cherokee constantly belittles the United States and demonstrates an extreme leftist anti-America mindset that will always draw fire from posters like me.

I believe that Cherokee is menatlly ill. And I don't believe his illness is caused by his Vietnam experience...I believe it is most likely caused by alcohol or drugs. I believe he is seriously delusional and given to flights of fantasy.

He appears to take any criticism of him as simply hatred of Native Americans by the one doing the criticising. I don't hate Indians, I just don't like this particular one because I believe him to be a liar and a phony.

Jack Dallas

Jack, you have just deliberately written posts designed to incite for so long, that you can't help yourself, can you?

The only thing wrong with Cherokee's 'mind' is that too many times he has offered you an olive branch, only to have you pick the olives OFF it, and then stomp what's left, into the ground.

Cherokee doesn't hate Americans and America....he hates where the NEO-Cons in control for all but 8 years since the start of Reagan, have taken this country. In that he is not alone! Only the well programmed Neo-Cons, are blind in their support of what has happened to America.

I suspect that if one served in REAL BATTLE, and WAS WOUNDED, it most certainly would influence one's thinking to some degree. I am lucky that I was a woman. You are lucky that you got a plush 'job' that kept you out of harm's way, while you 'served' your country.

Just count your blessings, for they have been many, and quit with the constant trying to stir up trouble, okay?

I consider both Cherokee and the 'you' that I met in person (totally unlike the 'you' on your posts) as friends, but I guarantee you, I have this thing for leaning toward the underdog, who is being mistreated.

How about some peace and quiet, and lets concentrate on what needs to be done to clean up the radical Neo-Con mess....it's EVERYWHERE, and has a real stench to it.

you can sympathize but you don't know what Cherokee went through over there and over here.

You don't have to like his politics. I don't like his politics but I thank God for Cherokee's service and his sacrifice.

and all are due gratitude and respect; but bullshit is bullshit no matter who says it. My points in this post are accurate. Vietnam was over 30 years ago. It's time to let it go.

Jack

Jack....better think twice before trying to drive a wedge between Truett and Cherokee. They are brothers in more ways than you know.

If you can sort of exit gracefully, that would probably be a great idea. If you need help getting your foot out of your mouth, no one can help you.....I fear you are on your own.

Plush Job?? I froze my ass off in Iceland and fried my ass off in Guantanamo Bay. I spent many 12 hour flights flying over the Carribean and the North Atlantic. I experienced a lost engine 500 miles out at sea and an onboard fire off the coast of Ireland.

Yeah, nobody shot at us but it sure as hell was not a plush job.

Jack

I'm not trying to drive a wedge between the two...I personally don't care how close they are. I was just telling the truth.

And i have never exited this board gracefully.

Jack

In all truth until you have lived it, and dealt with the nightmares for years and in some cases decades there is no way you can truly understand what we faced.

I don’t know exactly how it worked with Cherokee but during the draft many times you would be notified that your number had come up, that notification would come before you got the official notice. Many people then would go down and enlist in the Navy or Air force before their official notice. The problem was the Navy and Air Force were keeping their levels pretty steady and would reject the majority of applicants knowing that they were trying to avoid the Army.

Then there were others who as soon as they came of age tried to enlist in the services voluntarily. The only branch of the service that had a draft was the Army, sometimes after receiving the draft notice and reporting for processing if one of the other services had a severe shortage there was a chance you would be allowed to volunteer to go into one of the other services but that was very rare..

Yes the army of the time meant a tour in Vietnam (depending on your MOS) and I know of very few people who wanted to go, and nearly everyone hoped that something would happen to keep them from it. Only some one with some kind of mental problem would look forward to going into combat. But you will find that when we returned we were all proud of the service we had done for our nation.
Not always, I had a good friend SSGT Lucky who was wounded, had reconstructive surgery on his right shoulder, was fitted for a glass eye, had his left ear reconstructed and after 8 months of recovery/rehab was back. Many people were that way, we did not want to leave our brothers over there and in many cases felt guilty about being back in the states while our brothers were still in harms way.

As for his collage, maybe he feels like I do…I have had collage but I don’t try to show off. I thing that if I will talk/write etc. to the lowest level of those who might be reading/listening to me then I reach everyone from there up. If I talk at a doctorate level I am over the head of all the high school drop outs, high school graduates, or most collage students, but if I talk at the high school level, then everyone understands what I am saying.

We all make disjointed statements at times especially if we are upset, or mad at the time.

When those of us who served, and for those of us who were wounded it gets very aggravating to have someone who has never served to try and tell us how the military should be used, operate, or what they should do. It all goes back to the FACT that if you have not been there you have no idea what we are facing, or even how you would react if you were put in the same situation. I saw big tough guy types who froze and pissed their pants the first time the shit hit the fan. I also saw book worm types to stuff that would put world class fighters to shame. No one can know till they are actually in the situation.

It is not belittling the United States as much as it is questioning why this government has put us into the situation we are in, it is not anti-American to want those who are suppose to work for us to be held accountable and have them to explain their actions.

You are entitled to your personal opinion, I could say that from some of your post I question your mental processes, and in come cases your education or maturity. But that again is just my personal opinion and the way I read some of your post.

Many on this board have caused that, I have gone of several times about that, I might have even gone of on you once or twice about comments about Drunken Indians, Squaws etc…. T

here is nothing phony about Cherokee, he like me will be straight forward with you and will at any time tell you just what we think, after all you are dealing with a couple of crazy country boys who have seen far more than anyone should ever be forced to see.

Yeah I know. Leonard did Search and Rescue in the air force in of all places, way up in Alaska. It wasn't very warm up there either, but one thing about it, he never got shot at either.

I think I'd rather be cold, than dodging the FIRE of bullets.

And many of us who were over there would have traded places with you in a heart beat.

I like my brothers would love to let it go but still wake up in the middle of the night sweating and shaking like crazy. We would love to let it go but we see our goverment headed down the same path and don't want to see another generation face what we faced. We don't want to see our children placed in danger when not requried. We don't want to see young people place in dangers path for nothing more than political reasons.

So you're saying Cherokee is actually capable of writing posts that people can understand but he chooses not to because there are a lot retards on the board and he wants to reach them too?

The stuff about the draft (selection notice) and not being able to get into the Air Force or Navy, and being forced into the Army, sounds plausable enough. I don't know because I joined the Navy Reserve when I was still in high school and went on active duty later.

What we come away with is the central point of my top post. Cherokee served in Vietnam....that is to be admired but he should stop reminding us about it every fucking day....it gets old, and it tends to make me doubt the legitimacy of his claims.

Jack

Well, Ho Chi Minh did not send people over here to blow up our buildings and kill our citizens. We went looking for trouble and found it.

The war on terrorism has no correlation whatsoever to Vietnam. The enemy came onto our soil and murdered thousands of Americans. If we are not willing to fight for that reason then we deserve to be enslaved.

Jack

As long as we see our government leading us down the same path it would be wrong for us not to stand up and say NO… NO to putting our children in harms way when not needed, NO to getting involved in an endless war for political reasons, NO to seeing more vets come back only to be treated as something less than even a second class citizen when they try to get the care they deserve. NO as long as there is no true visible goal that says it is ended.

It is our responsibility to a new generation to warn them, and to stand up and ensure they NEVER FORGET.

Which one of the enemy was from Iraq? Which one ran to Iraq? How many Al Qaeda were in Iraq before we attacked? Where is OBL? Why attack a country that had nothing to do with attacking us? Why not get those responsible before starting a political war?

One of the big problems with this war on terror is we are not fighting a country but a concept. How many different countries do we have to attack to get all the terrorist. When do we start bombing areas in our on country to get the terrorist? When do we bomb England, Canada, South America, Mexico, France, Germany, Italy, and on and on and on?