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Pot-committed
by adoarns

Another anxiety I can attest to among medical students is this: by the time one has given it a real shot and even tolerated a great deal just to experience the clinical years, and then has decided medicine is definitely not for him, he is already desperately behind in terms of indebtedness.

There's no try-before-you-buy here. Either you've wanted to be a doctor your whole life and you know exactly what you're getting into or you become intrigued by the profession and roll the dice. The indebtedness in the middle of medical school encourages one to simply finish it out to have something to show for all the loans. But an MD is qualitatively useless for almost anything except being a physician. The hapless young person feels trapped by a continuously-losing investment.

Combine this with what I consider to be an exploitative system for apportioning residencies, one in which programs hold almost all the cards and prospective physicians don their pageant smiles as they go on interview tours, and you have a dire career-beginning.

If you talk to others about this, invariably they say, "It gets better." But what they mean is that you will attain a position of safety while you watch what was visited upon you be visited upon others. And you'll still be stuck in medicine, which promises a bourgeois income but not nearly the appropriate remuneration for the dedication and time devoted to it, esp. when one felt forced into it in the first place.

It is a fascinating profession and there's a lot of potential to do people good which is almost unassayable as to value. For certain kinds of people it's a life's work and a worthy ambition. But the way the career is designed now it can be stifling to others.

Re: Pot-committed
by buggie

This is all true, but isn't it the same for all professional degrees? Medical school has a bit more debt involved because it's longer, but professional school debt is pretty much professional school debt. Law students and MBAs have about $100K...you could argue that they make more money after graduation, but that's not always the case- law school costs the same whether you go into corporate law or the district attorney's office. My professional degree cost almost as much as an MBA and it's in environmental policy! I'll probably NEVER make that investment back...

You don't really get to "try before you buy" with these things either. Ok, maybe business school to a degree. But you can't work as a lawyer before going to law school either. This is a problem that faces all students, even undergrads. I don't think it's what makes med students more stressed than the others.

Re: Pot-committed
by Bondsman

And life can suck for everyone. If you decide to become a tradesman you could cut your hand off and have no job. You can become a teacher and not be able to afford a house in the district you teach in.

Every field has its downside, and medicine's is it has an HUGE initial investment in time and money, but OTOH, if you want to be a doctor, there are an awful lot of different directions you can go. Almost everyone can find *somewhere* they fit in.

And of course, that means some don't.

Re: Pot-committed
by Folgers
Some people are surpised that they will spend their entire career dealing with sick people. That doesn't seem so surprising really, teachers must work with kids and police officers with criminals. But a doctor's waiting room is usually filled with people who are miserable or feeling poorly. A depressing lot to spend your career with.
Re: Pot-committed
by IndySkies

It's not so much the sick...if they are truly sick through no, (or liitle), fault of their own.

It is the sick who are sick through life style decisions, or extreme non-compliance that keep coming back, with the attitude that there shoud be some magic 'pill', or treatment that will quickly return them to a state resembling some sort of level of health that will allow them to return to drinking, drugging, smoking, etc., until the next time in a month or so.

Then they have this attitude that, "No one can tell me how to live my life the way I want to." (Then stop coming back to my office/clinic/ER/hospital).

Re: Pot-committed
by accio

No, buggy, it is not the same for law and business. Both of these require less than 4 years of post grad education which decreases debt, and once the degreee is in hand, they can work for a reasonable wage. Granted, law requires passing the bar to stand a chance to make decent money, and many don't even then. Medicine requires the extra year of grad school and then a minimum of 3 years training prior to actually working at your chosen profession. And best of all, there are board certifcation examinations. This is in addition to the USMLE required to apply for a medical license. Law and business do not have this extra burden.

One glaring difference between medicine and either law or business is the personal responsibility physicians feel. Law is adversarial and by definition one side loses. It is probably not fun, but it is not personal. A bad outcome for your patient is a personal defeat to many physicians even in situations beyond their control. A physician chat board I used to visit had a story from an oncologist who was found himself being asked to treat the wife of an attorney who represented a patient suing the doc for malpractice. The doc asked the attorney how he could bring his wife to a doctor he thought had committed malpractice. The response was that he was the best oncologist in Philly and the lawsuit was the attorney's job and really nothing personal. The doc, of course, felt it was personal for him as he had done his best in the treatment of the plantiff patient and the poor outcome was unavoidable. The doc was unable to understand the mindset of the attorney who would argue in court that the doc had made a mistake - how could he be trusted to treat the man's wife if he made mistakes? Obviously, in other professions it is recognized that there will be mistakes but in medicine there must be perfection. It is too high a standard to expect from anyone, but we expect it of ourselves and the public expects it of us as well.

Re: Pot-committed
by buggie

accio:

No, buggy, it is not the same for law and business. Both of these require less than 4 years of post grad education which decreases debt, and once the degreee is in hand, they can work for a reasonable wage. Granted, law requires passing the bar to stand a chance to make decent money, and many don't even then. Medicine requires the extra year of grad school and then a minimum of 3 years training prior to actually working at your chosen profession. And best of all, there are board certifcation examinations. This is in addition to the USMLE required to apply for a medical license. Law and business do not have this extra burden.

One glaring difference between medicine and either law or business is the personal responsibility physicians feel. Law is adversarial and by definition one side loses. It is probably not fun, but it is not personal. A bad outcome for your patient is a personal defeat to many physicians even in situations beyond their control. A physician chat board I used to visit had a story from an oncologist who was found himself being asked to treat the wife of an attorney who represented a patient suing the doc for malpractice. The doc asked the attorney how he could bring his wife to a doctor he thought had committed malpractice. The response was that he was the best oncologist in Philly and the lawsuit was the attorney's job and really nothing personal. The doc, of course, felt it was personal for him as he had done his best in the treatment of the plantiff patient and the poor outcome was unavoidable. The doc was unable to understand the mindset of the attorney who would argue in court that the doc had made a mistake - how could he be trusted to treat the man's wife if he made mistakes? Obviously, in other professions it is recognized that there will be mistakes but in medicine there must be perfection. It is too high a standard to expect from anyone, but we expect it of ourselves and the public expects it of us as well.

Honestly, unless you hold both a medical degree and another professional degree, I don't think you can be so adamant that med school is so different. Yes, I believe there must be a high degree of personal responsibility involved with studying medicine, however I am sure there are law students who feel the same, and I also know of med students who don't give a shit about that stuff either and just want the prestige of being a doctor. Besides that, that has nothing to do with the debt issue and/or what you face after you make that investment.


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