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Re: John Edwards, looking the worst in the face
by old dem

<i>The couple said they donated about 8.6 percent of their income to charity, more than $3.3 million over the 10 years.</i>

<link>

Now, perhaps a portion of the $3.3M didn't go to putting a student through medical school but that is still an impressive figure.

"Meanwhile, Edwards IS making money. He's writing books, he did a stint as a senior consultant somewhere but backed out because they did subprime loans, etc."

Are you saying that only those who do not make money can be effective advocates for the poor?

I'm so glad that you are still part of the middle class. Unfortunately, that middle class does seem to having its problems these days.

From an opinion piece by Dr. William Raynor, Professor of Finance at the State University of New York (SUNY) at Delhi:

<link>

(This was the first piece that I found while googling "disappearing middle class". )

<i>According to Dr. Paul Craig Roberts, "Only a few of the 116,000 private sector jobs created in October provide good incomes... the remainder of the 116,000 new jobs consist of temps, retail trade, telephone marketing, and fund raising, administrative and waste services, and private education and health services." (Roberts, 11/12/03).</i>

Old statistics, granted, but I don't believe that a breakdown of currently created jobs would be much different.

<i>U.S. firms increasingly are replacing domestic engineers, IT workers, accountants, medical professionals, and almost any other middle-class job you can think of, with equally qualified individuals overseas, especially in India.

Family relationships have changed: "These days many parents are facing a new fact of life: ongoing financial help to their adult offspring, even into middle age." (Gardner, 12/11/03).</i>

As for Edwards, I really do not care if he has paid $400 for a haircut (or, two haircuts, as I have read). I do not care if he has (gasp!) actually made money.

I do care that he recognizes that many Americans no longer have financial security, that the economic underpinnings of our country are no longer in place, that poverty is indeed growing, and that Rubinomics has been a complete disaster for most Americans. I do think that his work as a trial lawyer has given him a chance to see how families are impacted when a tragedy occurs. I also believe that it is this experience that has helped to give him insight into the struggles that American families are experiencing.

Re: John Edwards, looking the worst in the face
by nlworlow

I honestly don't care if John Edwards is a millionaire. He could be a billionaire--the only effect that has on me is envy. I believe he's probably a good guy; I haven't seen anything to make me believe otherwise. I believe he probably does care about the poor. I'm a recent college grad with an unpaid internship in DC, so on my own, I'm definitely lower class. If I had to support myself, I'd be living in a box. Fortunately, I have one set of middle class parents and one set of upper middle class parents, so I'm not living in a box. All of that is background to saying that I do care about the poor. If I could personally contribute money, I would. But I can't, so I volunteer my time. My point is: just because I don't give money (and all evidence points to the Edwardses actually having given money to charity...), doesn't mean I don't care. So even if he didn't donate money, it wouldn't mean he were heartless.

But...if he's trying to run his campaign on this idea of two Americas, maybe he should try to bridge those a bit. It was in poor taste to get a $400 haircut, all the while deploring the conditions of the working class. And while I still believe that John Edwards is probably a good guy, that does add a shade of cynicism on my part. It makes him seem fake and shallow--not what I want in a president. If I wanted a fake and shallow president, I would've voted for Bush.

Also, I find the idea of two Americas a bit contrived. Yes, the poor are getting poorer, and yes, the rich are getting richer, but there is still, at least for the time being, a middle class. And this middle class has divisions. As I've already said, my family falls in the middle-upper middle class. We still have needs, though. We still have wants. Life is, by no means, a smooth ride. There's always bumps; there's always too little money when the tuition check comes (another thing the middle class would like--make education, including private university education, more affordable); there's always child support. It doesn't seem like John Edwards cares about that. He's only focused on the poorest of the poor. And while they definitely more help than anyone, the rest of us would like some attention too. I want a candidate who will respond to my needs, too. I don't get that vibe from him. I get it from Hillary. She just seems more in tune with the middle class, even though the Clintons are millionaires (as someone else said, millionaires are the only ones who can afford to run).

All that being said, I must say that it's never even occurred to me to vote for John Edwards. I come in as a biased Clinton Democrat. I'm voting for Hillary because it's a twofer--we get the both of them for the price of one. Of course, I'll vote for any Democrat that wins the nomination. But as it stands right now, John Edwards is a distant third. Not because he doesn't seem like a likeable guy, not because I don't think he wasn't a good lawyer (obviously he was), but because he's yet to reach me. He only hears my less fortunate fellow citizens. And it's going to require more than that to wrest my vote away from Hillary.

John Edwards - lets face the worst...
by gringo_911

This is America, folks. New America. Who is famous today? A doctor who found a cure for some horrible disease? An engineer who invented a new gadget? A businessman who created a new successful company, creating wealth? Not really. A silver-tongued lawyer, who was making money off other people misfortunes, using people's ignorance and misfortunes. Do you seriously believe that Edwards was making arguments based on actual medical facts - or based on emotions? And which one would work best with a gullible American jury, who were educated in the government run schools?

Let me remind you, ladies and gentlemen, that a woman won a case simply because she spilled hot coffee on her own legs. Who’s fault was it? You guessed right – the restaurant that sold her the hot coffee. After all, who expected her to understand that if you spill hot coffee on your legs – you get hurt. It’s more complex than quantum mechanics. Now imagine what an unscrupulous lawyer can achieve in a medical mal-practice case. Think about it. And don't try to tell me that medical lawyers go only after bad doctors. If you don't know this - one year every neurosurgeon in Washington D.C., had been sued. Every single one of them. That’s why people like Edwards are called “ambulance chasers”. So, how exactly did Edwards win? In one particular case, he used his super-natural abilities to channel the thoughts of a fetus. I am not sure his talent is fully confirmed and recommended by the scientific community, but we cannot doubt his sincerity, can we? Edwards told the jury that the fetus was talking through him. This is what he said in front of a jury: "She speaks to you through me and I have to tell you right now – I didn't plan to talk about this – right now I feel her. I feel her presence. She's inside me, and she's talking to you." "She said at 3, 'I'm fine.' She said at 4, 'I'm having a little trouble, but I'm doing OK.' Five, she said, 'I'm having problems.' At 5:30, she said, 'I need out.'" I am still amazed that the jury did not throw up after this presentation. Some people have very high tolerance to bullshit.

But it’s not enough for Edwards to make money of our medical professionals. Now he wants to bamboozle the whole country. Read this nice quote from his wife: His Road to One America tour was high-lighting what he has seen as he has worked on poverty issues: people in need: in need of housing and health care and jobs, surely, and in need of dignity and respect, and in need of a voice. He, again, is their voice.

So, let me get this straight. People who fail in a richest country with a very small unemployment and abundant opportunities - deserve to get free housing, free health care, jobs, dignity, respect and voice. An obvious question - they deserve to get all those things from whom exactly? And what did they do to deserve all those things? They must be respected just because they breathe? Aha. It's only fair to ask - when do hard-working middle class Americans get dignity and respect and voice - and most importantly be allowed to live their lives as they want? When will Edwards and his ilk leave us alone?

That's funny....
by gringo_911

I'm a recent college grad with an unpaid internship in DC, so on my own, I'm definitely lower class. If I had to support myself, I'd be living in a box.

Actually, if you had to support yourself, you would have to get a proper job, which pays for your living. And in this case, you would be far less supportive of the democrat party - since you would be actually a hard-working American, who is not relying on anyone's handouts.

Re: John Edwards, looking the worst in the face
by nlworlow

One more quick thing, then I'll leave well enough alone for about a half hour.

I have nothing against lawyers, and I have in the past worked for lawyers, doing all of their grunt work. While I have no doubt they work hard, a lot of the hard work is done by people like me--20 somethings getting paid minimum wage. I have no problem starting at the bottom of the professional ladder, but it does peeve me when people think lawyers do all of the mundane stuff in addition to their hours in the courtroom. Every lawyer I know, even the small-town ones who only go for the bad guys (hello, tongue-in-cheek), has an assistant.

And good doctors get sued. And companies that don't really deserve to get sued. I worked for a lawyer who was actually representing the companies in these types of suits, and some of the lawsuits...they're ridiculous. Yeah, some are genuine, but a lot are just lawyers and clients looking to make some money.

And I say all of that as a bleeding heart liberal, before anyone accuses me of being a Republican.

Re: That's funny....
by nlworlow

No, if I had to support myself, I'd be working at McDonald's, making minimum wage. Which is definitely not enough to afford an efficiency apartment in DC. I'd be even more likely to be a Democrat, since Republicans are tools.

But in that case, I'd probably be more inclined to vote for Edwards, since I would be among the poorest of the poor...hmm.

Re: John Edwards, looking the worst in the face
by dbrown04
Elizabeth Edwards is the most clear, honest and courageous voice in American politics today. I wish she were the Edwards running for President.
Re: John Edwards, looking the worst in the face
by friendlyphil
There are lots of folks that have dedicated their lives to those without a voice many of which do so for little or no compensation at their own expense and many without any recognition at all. So are we supposed to feel better about the condescending attitude the the Edward's family has to the rest of us poor. Jesus summed it up best in his parable of the Widow's mite she gave all that she had even all her living. Show me your humble desire to serve us poor when you sell all that you have and give to the poor and the needy. But don't try to sell me a line when your haircut cost more than what it would take to buy school lunch for 30 kids for one month. Your electric bill for one year alone would pay for an associate degree at a public college for a poor kid. And what was John's take of every law suit 60%. His voice for the silenced was very well compensated, I am quite sure!
Re: That's funny....
by gringo_911
So, you are saying that after graduating from a university, the only paying job you can find is flipping burgers? Hm. I guess you chose the wrong major, that's all. But then, if you had to support yourself, you would have known better.
Re: That's funny....
by johnnyb
Your pathetic language skills belie the mind of a person that has never formed an opinion that wasn't orally spoon-fed by Rush or Hannity. Keep eschewing (that means forgoing, which means to avoid on principle) reading even a right wing newspaper. What GOP think tank are you interning for anyway, my sub-literate friend?
Re: That's funny....
by friendlyphil
Thank you for the critique. I will work at my language skills.
Re: That's funny....
by Billy Cioffi

First of all no matter who is the nominee they will be better than any R that is running.

2. The nitpicking that all these people are doing is amazing. An expensive hair cut so what. It is all such BS.

3 It's about time somebody gets in some of these people's face and calls them on it. I am a big fan of Dickerson but his whole piece reads cold detached and looking for the bad. I suppose that is his job but at times it is a circular firing squad. I feel the same way about Hillary people making judgments about the interior lives of the people

4. "We the People" created a contract wherein we vote for people with all their good and bad they are people all the same. Elizabet Edwards and everyone else have to be admired because no one could possibly enjoy all of US looking up and down every orifice and going to the OED to find out imagined subtext in every utterance.

5. Than heavens we at last have a number of candidates All D's talking about things that really matter like Health Care, Education and the huge list of things that have been perhaps irrevocably damaged by this gang of thieves, idiots and greedy scum that are the current government.

6 The great motto for 08 as far as I'm concerned is "Had Enough?" anybody, in my not so humble opinion who would vote for any one in the R column is an idiot or a masochist.

7 HL Mencken famously said "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public the current administration is living proof that the American public is not so smart as it thinks and neither are the talking heads and the rest. I have been a lefty minority all my life and I'm glad I am and have been because I did not vote for these boobs and have rarely , if ever agreed with them.

8 I don't know if I'm voting for Edwards but who ever it is it will be a D.

9 get off it John

Re: That's funny....
by nlworlow
I was a Spanish major, but I would prefer to take a year or two off to gain some work experience before applying to highly-selective grad schools. Not that I should have to defend my degree, but I'm very proud of the education I received, at a top university. I have no problem starting as an unpaid intern for a Congressman, but if I didn't have parents who were willing and somewhat able to help me along the way, I wouldn't have this option. And I would have to flip burgers. And there's nothing wrong with that -- it's just not what I'm looking for in terms of a career. And in a few months, I will be at the frontline for a very lucrative job, so for awhile, yes, I will have to work a minimum-wage job that will barely pay the rent. (No, not in DC, but in my home state, which is considerably cheaper, where I will be able to make rent, albeit not in a nice part of town.) But I don't mind paying my dues -- it'll make me a more appreciative person of my education and the opportunities that have been afforded to me. And I won't be criticizing other people's education 10 years from now. I'm sure it feels really good.
Re: That's funny....
by gringo_911

Your pathetic language skills belie the mind of a person that has never formed an opinion that wasn't orally spoon-fed by Rush or Hannity.

Hm. That's a strong argument against the things I said. Did you suck right out of Edward's cock?

Keep eschewing (that means forgoing, which means to avoid on principle) reading even a right wing newspaper.

I read quite a lot, thank you. And yes, that includes the local left-wing newspaper. Anyway, if you got any arguments - present them. If you desire, we can compare our education levels. Are you game, comrade?

What GOP think tank are you interning for anyway, my sub-literate friend?

Okay, I will tell you what I do. But then, don't shy way from telling us what you do. Agreed?

Re: That's funny....
by johnnyb
Sorry, man. That comment was directed to Gringo 911, not you.
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