art:

wrote that late at night and did not proof-read it. By no means are you unstable, which it seems I implied. Watch the harpies.

Similiar story to my wife "K"; While she was on her journey, another friend who has/had a similiar struggle recommended several books. Again, I am making generalizations, these books are christian faith based so the readership of Slate may not agree with them. One author I read was Anne Paulk. I know there are posts that put her down but I think what she has to say are similiar to what you discovered and experienced. 'K' never had/has a typical relationship with her mother. 'K' has become in the last few years 'girlie'. She never wore make-up, had almost no dresses, never even carried a purse. I never thought of her as butch. To me she was always beautiful with her dark brown hair, brown eyes and smooth skin (yes, I am biased). Later, I think she realized that a lot of women didn't like her because she was such a natural beauty. Yet, she still had an attraction and wanting approval from women. Sort of... "I hate women but I want to be with a woman." When she started wearing make-up and more feminine clothes, she felt like such a fake/poser. She is doing better and gaining more confidence. Back to the mother issue, her mother still says inappropriate things to her, such as telling her that her father would have adjusted better to having a retard daughter instead of a retarded son. Or, if she (her mother) had to do things over, she still would have sacrified her (K) to take care of retarded older brother. The message 'K' got was that the boy/male was more important than her. Sometimes, I feel like I am a cleaner because I have to be the one that has to be there to listened the crying, sobbing, etc. I was not equiped to deal with all this, but I dealt with. I learned to live with it and to equip myself to be there for her. Obviously, I am in therapy. One of the key tools, I learned was, 'don't give advice unless asked." It is hard being the guy, because we are hard-wired to fix things. My youngest says, 'my daddy fixes things.' But there are some things that daddy can't fix. He can only be there for momma when momma cries.

...or how 'transformative,' but quite frankly, the idea's extremely hot...at least, I'd venture to say that many guys would find it so.

Odd, isn't it, that while a guy would probably not be that disturbed by such an affair on the part of his wife (and might well be turned on), most women would probably be offended, horrified, or disgusted if their husbands had a gay affair.

[Women may insert favorite version of 'men are dogs' here]

:)

Women fall in love with each other all the time, but many don't take it to the next level - they just form strong, long lasting friendships & are especially close.

Ah Horus - you're no dog! And men aren't dogs!

I think my husband was quite disturbed - especially when he thought our marriage was over. But I also think it was easier for him to move past since it wasn't another guy.

I think women need that deep relationship with other women. Especially if they have any deep disconnection from their own feminine body. But not everyone certainly! And it isn't required by any means!

I just think it happens a lot :)

I think this is very true.

I don't think I could sustain a deep and close friendship with the woman with whom I was in love. I have to keep a pretty far distance from her.

I've made my choice and don't want to feel that helpless, hopeless, oh-my-god-i'm-out-of-control feeling again. Not with her!

If I found myself getting extremely close to another woman I think it would be best for me to declare a boundary and then enjoy the friendship and all its benefits.

what initially drew me to your post was the enormous number of views (almost 5,000 as of now) but once past the raciness of the post's title, your question is compelling.

Aside from the "alluring" aspects of it - because let's face it - that part is universal no matter if you're male or female - experiencing really good sex in midlife is empowering in itself - but why do you say its "almost necessary" for a women to experience another woman?

I have very close and intimate friendships with other women, but I don't feel I'm "missing" anything by not having sex with them. Do you think the fact that I have no inclination to have sex with them may be the difference between us?

Wow! Art/Soul, your experience seems very similiar to my wife 'K' experience. Although I would like some clarification. I think in your earlier post you said you are still in contact with the other woman but in this later post, I get the indication you are not in contact with her.

'K' severed her ties, several times, but the lesbian co-worker (LCW) would talk her way back into 'K's life. It was not until 'K' got a transfer that she was able to make the sever. Even then, LCW made an attempt at contact when she and her partner conceived a baby girl. 'K' ignored the e-mail and promptly told her new women friends and me. I really felt sorry for LCW partner because I knew more about what was going on than she did. It was not until LCW partner found the e-mails that she even knew something was going on.

As far as 'is it hot' to see my wife with another woman? I was more concerned with saving my family and marriage. During all the turmoil, I was at a party and found myself help 'K' chat/seduce another woman. The funny thing was, I was not all the titilated. After the party, I was telling 'k' that it will be okay for her to contact this new woman. Then, 'K' starts getting all freaked out that I suggested it. In the back of my head, I was thinking if she goes off with another woman, she still will not find what she was looking for. As I stated earlier, I gave her room to go off with LCW but in the end, it was only one night. (And for the guys, it wasn't some big lez orgy - face it, that only exist in porno films) 'K' wasn't looking for sex, she was looking for a relationship that sex couldn't fulfill.

Also, art/soul, I didn't know that it was several years that you and your husband were apart. But for us, we were in the same house, but still apart. Looking back, it was a few years.

Continue to work on it and do be aware. "K' did make friends with another woman that strayed in the same way but is still with her husband. I don't know 'C's story but I know that her husband is not as supportive. If I could give advice to wayhey - that is to be supportive and understanding. The stories and advice I got was if you push too hard or give ultimatiums, you are going to lose her. Our pastor said, "deep down, 'K' you still love Mr. J, otherwise, you would have left long ago." I still feel wounded. Sometimes, I feel like my feelings are overlooked or, this was my fault because I wasn't 'man-enough' to protect her, etc. In the end, it is easier , in my opinion for me to forgive 'K' for being with another woman than a man. I guess it is the idea that I have been the only man in her life.

P.S. yes, she has had more women than me

topazz -- I guess maybe I was just really talking about my own assessment of my situation. Five years out from the experience I often think of it, ruminate on it and certainly it has been a rich ground of my creativity.

So in a way I don't see it as a mistake or an aberration, but for me a necessary step on my journey.

If it hadn't happened I don't think I'd feel it missing. I wouldn't know that.

I just mean that for me, because of what has come after I feel its richness and rewards have been great. And perhaps I wouldn't have the understanding and perspectives I do now.

And I LOVE these perspectives and insights I have.

I also have rich, deep and non-sexual relationships with women. But this experience was different. It was different from about the first time I met her. There was a totally different vibe.

And I didn't know, in the beginning, what that vibe was. But it was not simply the blossoming of something from friendship to the next level. It was fast, deep, powerful, strange, other-worldly, completely adolescent at times!! And yet strangely orchestrated, it often felt so much bigger than me.

I didn't mean to imply that without the experience all women are missing something. But more like I think there are a lot of us who have experienced this, and found great healing and growth and ... something ineffable from it.

Does that help?

Mr. J - I am in contact with her in that our daughters are friends, and this is a pretty small town.

However we do not get together for lunch or dinner, we do not hang out together. We don't socialize at all.

We are certainly cordial. I adore her kids. I'm very close to them, and they are often at our house.

But what I'm talking about is that I don't even get close to anything that looks like it may strike that up again.

She was the only woman I've been with -- although I thought for a while that maybe I was gay and perhaps that was in the cards. But I do love my husband very much and could never really leave.

It's a great big messy tale to go into the details, so I won't. But we worked through it in a way that has worked out great for our family. It required a lot of compromising and caring, a lot of compassion and support. It required a lot of respect and oddly enough a lot of trust that we could be truthful with each other.

I chose to really listen to my husband, not justify myself and shut him out. He did the same. That was a powerful experience for both of us.

Someone on here mentioned "emotional intimacy" and that really had a lot to do with why we survived in the way we did.

How can you tell this thread has 5,000 views???? What the heck!?

That just blew by me!

I didn't realize the title was racy - I was just trying to ask that question - and then the post got away from me. Ha. :)

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't mean to accuse you or anything negative. I appreciate your frankness. As you stated, you hope to help someone or give some insight. I just want to give the view point from a man who's wife had an affair with another woman.

I guess my wife has had more 'experience' with women than you which has made her journey more difficult. When she married me, she felt like she left all that behind and so did I. I do believe there are more women that are having affairs with other women. Does anyone have any research to confirm this? My personal belief is that your first sexual contact has a great impact on your sexual identity. Hers was with another woman, my was with porn. It takes years to remove the effects but it is well worth it when you have a spouse/partner willing to go through the 'gates of hell' with you. The sex between is better than ever between us. I've learn to slow down and think of her more.

It sounds like you have a 'nice' husband. It's good to know that there are good men out there. We all can be pigs, but there are some pigs that have a good heart! ; ) I'm teaching my sons to respect and be nice to women - not just the 'hot' looking one. Treat every woman with respect and 'agape' love.

Again, blessings to you, yours husband and daughters!

Thanks Mr. J -- Oh I totally believe there are MOSTLY good and wonderful men! And women! I'm not a big one for calling names on whole groups of people. I try to keep my name-calling to a specific person! LOL!

art/soul

you're okay! life's too short be name calling!! BTW - was the other woman gay or did she 'fall into it?'

'k' LCW said said several times to her, 'i can make you switch back.'

just a guy's curious nature - like I said, I knew going into the relationship with her that she had several issues... but I wouldn't have done it with anyone else!

Blessings!!

She was gay - but hated herself for it. She mostly "went after" married women, but I didn't find this out till after I was already a goner. :)

blessings to you as well!