Emotion transcends language. Passion transcends language. But flat out education does not. How can you make me know that Jesus loves me...that there is one true God...that I shouldn't be an alcoholic because the Bible says my body is a temple if you are speaking Latin to me and I only speak English? Church service - Bible reading - is about education in order that the Gospel should be spread and the world would come to know the Lord. At some point, beyond the beautiful music and smells and ceremony, there must be true connect and communication.

I attend a Latin (Tridentine) Mass weekly at St. Patrick's in New Orleans. It always has quite a large and diverse attendance--it's not just old ladies but many people who were born during or after Vatican II.

Also, people need to remember that the Novus Ordo Mass (the one most of us have been attending since 1970) at the Vatican is celebrated mostly in Latin to this day. It is still the official language of the Roman Catholic Church. Any Catholic priest anywhere has the right to celebrate a Novus Ordo Mass in Latin. (Incidentally, the "Latin Mass" isn't entirely in Latin but includes Ancient Greek and Aramaic as well.)

The homily (sermon) is and to my knowledge always has been in the vernacular. Few priests have the ability to preach in Latin, and what would be the point?

The Bible readings are usually done in the vernacular also, or else a translation is provided.

Also, Latin/vernacular missals have been around for hundreds of years. The Latin is on one page, the vernacular translation is on the facing page. They also usually include descriptions of what is happening and WHY at key points of the Mass, and the Bible readings/changeable prayers for individual Masses. It takes a couple of weeks to learn to follow along, but it is not hard once you get used to it. These missals are widely available used on Ebay and I think a company out of Metairie, Louisiana, puts out an inexpensive reprint of the 1960 St. Joseph Sunday Missal.

love your name!

this newest motuproprio, Summorum Pontificum, simply reaffirms the priest's right to celebrate Latin Mass. in this new directive, the Pope allows for the Latin Mass to have readings and homily delivered in the vernacular.

How can you make me know that Jesus loves me..?
proper understanding of the Holy Sacrifice, given once and for all time, re-presented on the altar, the very Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of the Lord-- that is what lets us know God loves us.

Bible reading - is about education in order that the Gospel should be spread and the world would come to know the Lord.
it is not education, rather evangelization-- engaging the mind, emotions, reason, will and spirit. either way, you are not forced to attend in Latin and the readings and homily will be delivered in vernacular.

i hope this helps.

waltz

I love the Latin Mass and especially the treatments of it by composers like Bach, Mozart and Beethoven. The rhythms and languages evoke an earlier time closer to the mysteries that the Mass professes, yet the words are familiar enough that we can blow the dust off them and see the antecedents of our own, modern tongues.

But as far as knowing any supernatural father figure or communicating with a Jewish radical who lived two-thousand years ago, I have to laugh, and laugh loud and hard!

As long as people continue to come together to celebrate the myths that bind them together, I am all for shrouding those ceremonies in the traditions and customs that bridge the modern communicant with his ancient counterpart, for the modern world is too often eager to wipe clean the artifacts of the past in pursuit of the future.

The return of Latin to the Mass honors our past while reminding us of both the best and worst that our ancestors bequeathed to us, their spiritual descendents who somehow forgot their moral teachings while posturing for repentance and humility and living as comfortably as possible, absently disregarding those teachings when they become inconvenient.

Obviously you have never attended a Latin mass as only the mass is in Latin the sermon is in English or whatever the language of the country the mass was said in. I find the current English mass lacking in beauty and ceremony. The walking around, greeting of others in the middle of the mass is distracting. As are the comments of "yes Jesus" and "hand waving" during the sermon which are becoming more common at the church I currently attend. I look forward to an opportunity to attend mass in Latin as the English mass and other changes have effectively cut down on my phyisical attendance at church and moved me to view mass on TV.

Education is not the point. Passion and emotion are. The Roman Catholic church provides beautiful rituals. Enjoy the rituals. If you want to be educated, then you are in the wrong location.

Passion and emotion are not the point.

proper worship and reverential re-presentation of the Lord's sacrificial supper and sacrifice on the cross-- that is the point. of course, this should engage our minds, hearts, souls, wills. it is an encounter with the Lord and should change us-- every single time-- as any profound encounter would.

waltz

"it is an encounter with the Lord and should change us"

You must be joking, waltz, right?

I love the rhythms and language of the Latin mass, especially when sung, as much as the next guy, but as far as actually believing any of that supernatural nonsense--you're kidding me, right?

I mean, c'mon, what century are you living in? Maybe you haven't heard, but the earth is not the center of the universe and life evolved over billions of years.

Also, dead people decompose and do not spring back to life, especially in the hot desert.

But maybe I am too harsh. You may be just a child, still caught in the fantastical web of childish beliefs, and with time and knowledge you will come to shed your silly myths and superstitions.

I look forward to they day you can engage the world as a rational human being!

The message is right, even if it's being sung by a rapist. But should he be rewarded because he can sing (or, in the case of Phil Spector, because he's gotten others to sing)?

We Dems are actually considering appointing John Edwards, war producer, to be our President. If we aren't under a spell (and divinely inspired), we're cheap.

One of my criticisms about sermons and church services is that they become insanely repetitive. The Bible is a long and complex text, but there is only so much that can be extrapolated from it, and when you have a particular doctrine to expound and defend, there are limits to what can be said.

I know TBN and other Christian television networks aren't necessarily the best examples to use, but for this discussion, they are perfect. Watch these networks and you will hear, ad nauseum, the same buzzwords and catchphrases over and over and over again. One has to wonder how any regular patron of these networks or of their local church congregations, can possibly "learn" anything new.

"Learning" things isn't really the point, of course. It's all about affirmation and reinforcement of values and ideas. You get together once or twice or three times a week to be reminded of the same things, over and over again, until they become so ingrained in your psyche that they're accepted without question.

Despite my own deep misgivings about the Roman Catholic Church, I do have a certain fascination with its unapologetic embrace of ritual and ceremony. The truth is that Protestant denominations, through their constant repetition of dogma, are doing the exact same thing that the Catholics do. They simply don't see it that way because their form of worship is less formal and less codified.

The purpose of the Roman Catholic Mass is not to teach, or to inspire feelings with music or ritual. It is to re-enact the transformation of bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ.

Whether you believe in that, as waltz n capsize does, or don't, as is true of most of the rest of you, is entirely a personal decision. But don't create your own "take" on what is "supposed" to be the purpose of the Mass.

Growing up in a Catholic family, I never knew that was the purpose of the Mass, because I couldn't understand the Latin. It was only when priests started saying the Mass in English that I realized what it was all about. By then, I had already left the church, and I haven't returned. But when I attend a Catholic Mass for someone's wedding or funeral, I still like to hear English to remind me of what the priest is doing up there.

Mary Ann