Instead of running around desperately trying to tamp down the right of The Free Press to ask Obama questions about his political ties and ideological influences such as The Rev. Wright and his support of Farrakhan's Million Man March...why don't you really rally to his Campaign and ask the Obama people if they would consider having Obama come out and denounce The Nation of Islam for the hate mongering anti semitic organization that it is?

If he did that I would vote for him.

But instead Obama made a flowery speech, in Pa. about Wright, where he ended up tossing his white grandmother under the bus to justify his praise and pride and admiration for the anti American Rev. Wright.

Obama's endless wavering and changing explanations about people like Wright(who is a dedicated admirer of Farrakhan)have been wholly inadequate.

One has to question why this is.

Just as I would love to see George Bush come out and tell the Bob Jones and the Pat Robertson's to go to hell and to denounce them for their homophobic hate speech, so too, would I like to see Obama take a solid stand against the racist orgs. that support him.

But, we all know, if we are genuinley honest that neither Bush nor Obama would ever do such a decent thing...and why?

Because the Conservative Christian Right Hate mongerer's org's give him tons and tons of money to fund the GOP, which makes Bush beholden to the right wing religious zealots.... and by the same token. Do you suppose any of the Black Muslim religious sects have ever given a dime to Obama?

No, he's far too pure for any of that.

righhhhht.

Religious zealotry on either side of the fence is dangerous for a democracy.

As I have written before, I have had close friends and long-term working associates in the Nation of Islam and have not known any of them to be anti-semitic or would I think of them as racist. There may be anti-semitic people in that reilgion. There may be anti-semitic people in my church. Iv'e not met them.

Louis Farrakhan has said some pretty inflammatory remarks and those remarks have oft been quoted, but in general it appears to me that he got stuck with the label when what he was trying to be was anti-zionist. That's not the same thing. There are anti-zionist jews. For my own part, I am very suspicious of the pro-Israel lobbying network in the United States. It is far too powerful.

As an organization, the Nation of Islam has done very diligent and important work in Chicago. I have seen it.

So I cannot in all good conscience denounce the Nation of Islam. I think they do good work. I don't denounce Christianity just because of Pat Robertson, either. I think he's an old fuckwad. I think Farrakhan's an old fuckwad, too. I must be an anti-old-fuckwad. Denounce me, if it makes you feel better.

I don't think the majority of Americans will vote for him.Time will tell.

Hey LaurieAnnM,

I love your posts, I have to take some exception to likening BJU with NOI, BJU is not hate-mongering, it loves the USA, it believes in separation of church and state, it used to be paranoid as most fundamental religions are with being forced into relative religiousity. (hehe) . Ian Paisley is one of the gentleman who would speak at the University, it's cultural program is outstanding, one day a debt will be owed to the University for it's preservation of religious artifacts (christian and non-christian).

I attended BJU for one year, I have attended 7 educational institutions, have been on various study abroad programs etc. They were for John Conyers during the Reagan years, Reagan and Conyer both spoke there. I do not in general affiliate with the University, but do receive their newsletters. It is an exceptional institution that judging from the dissertation from Michele Obama surpasses Princeton in standards. It is intrusive and demands a specific type of social behavior, which is stressful.

One thing that BJU is NOT is evangelistic. Pat Robertson is considered too liberal for the more conservative Bob Jones. There was a New Testament professor at the University that introduced me to the Maccabees for the first time. I was totally blown away. There are some hilarious stories of course, I mean it is a bit silly to look back on. But comparing BJU to NOI is like comparing a shoplifter's crime to a murderer.

What is discussed is that the Trinity United Church of Christ is a veneer that legitimized NOI doctrine, which judging from what I observed of Wright, does not dispute that belief.

For those who keep three by five cards, I am agnostic, but my agnosticism has been a journey based on a lot of trial. I am not against proselytizing to judaism or to catholicism if I feel that an absolute stand needs to be taken.

The danger of course and why I mention this is, the attack to democracy is not fundamental christianity. The attack to democracy is firmly embedded in radical muslim. Radical muslim has embraced clerical fascism in it's bid to "take over the world" (I always see pinky and the brain when I say that hehe). It is a bizarre idealogy but it is truly what they want to do, and from the 1 billion muslims no one knows the percentage of the population that wants to do this. (Again will refer all to read the graphic novel Persepolis by Satrapi) In a recent analysis of radical Islam and fascism, by Tufts University .

http://fletcherforum.com/

David Goldfischer and Micheline Ishay
Belligerent Islamic Fundamentalism and the Legacy of European Fascism

The study of European fascism during the inter-war years holds important lessons for understanding the roots and nature of contemporary violent Islamist movements. An effective strategy for addressing Islamist security threats must respect a comprehensive doctrine of human rights and could build upon post–World War II economic policies.

A film named "Obsession" also details the radical Islamic movement. The actual call is for moderate muslims to stand up and be heard. Interesting because video footage is shown of Arabic leaders promising one thing publicly to the West, and in the Middle East to say another totally opposite.

These are two must read, must sees, to give a better understanding of McCain's statement "if it takes 100 years". Considering how people are openly converting to Catholicism (Tony Blair, muslims in Italy) I believe that it is crucial to understand this as a brave stance that avows democracy.

This is not BJU, BJU taught integration through separation (they no longer teach that, as they were going to lose their tax status), NOI teaches obliteration of white. We only need to look at the racial cleansing going on now in Africa to see where that leads, and that is something I say NO Thanks.

As far as Ducadmo's post. I think that overall, everyone on the planet is essentially good. I think that how people view others is really the issue. When people view others as essentially evil, then um.....could become a bit of a problem. When they extend that to glorification of death, then ummm probably not folks I would want to watch my back. This actually goes back to the idea of Nationalism. Nationalism is love of country. The ability to love one's country protects it and has within it a built in moral code, that helps regulate corruption. It is no different than love of family. Love of family gives the family a base or standard on which to grow. If the family were to not show their love, and ignore each other, not nurture each other, then the differences that exist within families would split up family units.

NOI is a type of nationalism. It divides and eventually if it grows will result in a conflict, no different than the conflict in the South, that will find resolution. Just because someone is black does not mean that he deserves to be in the White House because of ALL the injustices blah blah blah. Just because a person is a woman does not mean that she deserves to be in the White House because of blah blah blah. Grow up. I'm voting for who will help me the most in the White House period. The presidency is not about affirmative action, it's about the best frelling person for the job.

It is this Nationalism and the fascist element that concerns me about it.

If only people would lift the rock and look what lies beneath so many of the orgnaizations. But, alas..the surface spin seems good enough for most.

One wonders have we learned nothing from these same sort of methodologies from the past that caused some of the worst atrocities mankind could ever have imagined.

People just refuse to really research how this happens or what the current agenda is with NOI.

And the white guilt thing you suggest also seems to be somehwat in play here for some illogical irrational reason,too.

Anyway..it's so great always to see you posting without fear of being called some silly name..or whatver by the bots..that's all most of them can do..they have no better retort than a childish attack.

It's kinda fun though..because it confirms to us that is all they have got.I just chuckle here about the ones that do.

They can say whatever to me personally...doesn't bother me...and it won't make Obama sort of a God, no matter what.

;)

reasonable suggestions, Laurie. All they do is just talk to each other, read ONLY the Campaign-approved (and no doubt, sub rosa, -funded & -sponsored) websites &/ or moveon.org. Then they come on here & write identical posts (some even with identical language!) "defending" their guy OR attacking Hillary Clinton.

Obama is highly suspicious, imho & we still need to find out MORE about him. As "a typical white person," I do not trust him -- yet -- and the more we are finding out about him, the LESS I am moved or inspired to trust him. (**) He's sneaky & he's hypocritical as well as the obvious, "he's inexperienced." NOT the right person for The Big Job -- not yet, at least.

(**) IRONY ALERT for those Obama-BOTS who might miss that ... :-)

You might want to read David Brooks' FINE column on Obama's fade in yesterday's New York Times.

Like to see it.don't expect any miracles from that guy.

And I suspect, with good reason. As for "white guilt," which i also call "Liberal guilt" wrt the BOTF-Obama Elitist-BOTS, it's clearly a huge reason so many of them support him. I look at Duc's posts & it's almost all I can see. Same with rundeep & some of her crowd -- it leaps off the screen at me. Of course, they will deny it. At this point, they've tarnished themselves so much, in my eyes, their opinions mean very little. VERY little. "White guilt" it is -- but oh no, don't anyone DARE call it aloud for what it is -- it's all under the surface, my dear.

Thanks for the background. You hang tough -- this is a rough room / crowd over here. :-)

HILLARY in 2008 - READY FROM DAY ONE!

It is like this Nationalism is not inherently wrong, being white is not inherently wrong. We are used to being attacked for being white as rascists ummm because you are white! lol. If Obama had manifested his roots with identifiably white features, this would be a moot point, he would not have had the financial backing to get to the Senate, he would not have had the ability to get into Harvard, he would not have had the blackness to garner the support of Wright. Quite simply he would not have had the credentials to make a bid for the White House.

To be fair neither would John F Kennedy if he were running today. JFK would not have made the candidacy, much less the election. Idealism is great for intellectuals and ostriches who like to have their heads buried in the sand.

I think that the issue of black racism should be addressed, as well as their bigotry in disallowing ethnic groups to integrate inside their neighborhoods.

Black racism is what is destroying black communities. It is not reparations, it is not "toss money at us", it is within their own culture, and the only peeps that can resolve that is themselves. (I am NOT saying ALL blacks, those of you with common sense know what I am talking about). I am talking specifically about Wright and look at the area he is in. Blaming whitey only hurts it does not help, and quite frankly it's annoying, divisive, and borders strongly on inciting race hate crimes imo.

I'm listening to that Farrakhan link now. What he is saying is deeply Islam. The One true religion and the religions that break off of it. Jihad is about cleansing Islam from the false break-offs and coming back to the One True faith. It is not an integrational religion. It's interesting how this fundamental Islamic doctrine has been twisted into christianity, I wonder if Farrakhan has their own text.

I love how Farrakhan talks about Jimmy Carter and UFOs and how Carter did not open up the hidden UFO files hehe.

But the whole Satan vs Good is just so annoyingly western. Personally I'm all for Buddhism being taught as a philosophy, peeps need to learn to chill.

"Uproot the structure that corrupts (those in the white house)....regime change....you got to uproot what is in the US of America or people will never have what the constitution decrees." Farrakhan

hehe love that line, I guess Farrakhan will be voting for McCain.

did you see the article where Michelle says that blacks should not go into corporations? and Obama tells blacks to go into government. It's damn good advice from Obama actually. Government is the most stable job to have, has the best benefits, and pays the most money for the least amount of education, and has built in job guarantee.

I tend to try and avoid everything Michelle says as she ranks right up there with Dan Quayle and Bushisms, both of which I avoided unless it just happened to be blatantly there for me to see. There was a magazine I was going to buy to get the CD inside of it, and just couldn't because she was on the cover, I imagined, like having a song play over and over again in your head, that if I purchased it I would only hear "Let Obama guide you, have faith in Obama" over and over in my head. No wonder he doesn't place his hand over his heart, he expects people to worship him. Geesh, no frelling thanks.

On duc,

I agree Lunesta, he is the most literate obama-bot on the fray imo, yet he does not ever actually say anything that legitimizes why someone would support the guy.

One of my son's friends who were all obama-bots, decided to be for McCain because he noticed that Obama would always say whatever Hillary said and add something weird to it. Since Hillary is for controlling the violent content of video games, it will be a cold day in he** before any of that crowd votes for her, and Obama's inability to have an identity separate from hers has basically tossed 5 boys against him, and for McCain, now of this crowd, I think only one will actually go vote. The others are a bit self-involved and will probably be doing their hair that day. When did boys become the same as girls?

So true, my dear, Lunesta. I will also look at that article you mention. Thx.

btw the Smutz is tailing you again...me oh my but you are popular with him aren't you?
Me too, he went Postal on me a few weeks ago...let's see if he's in a fighin' form today...shall we?
rotfl.

Interesting, indeed! ;-)

And also interesting about your son's friends ,jegal! let's hope all come to their senses about Obama before this is over....but as we know the die hard Koolaid types are well...goners.

They'll have to be sent to post Obama brainwashing Camp after this is over I guess.

lol

video on Obama, The Church and Satan..appreciate it. The 'evil' International bankers...are The Jews, in his usual rhetoric of course.He names them as Jews in the speeches he gives in his own church.