Laurie-Ann --

McCain is on record with regard to the kind of Justices he would appoint. He help up Roberts and Alito as examples of that kind of Justice. This is as pro-life as they come.

It is insane for Feminists to take a chance on McCain. If feminists do so, to spite Obama, then Clinton's campaign will be a complete disaster for women.

Beathan

I cannot even think of a better reply and analysis. Bravo.

Congratulations on writing another well done, editor selected piece Laurie!

Yes, the media, Matthews, Olbermann, etc., have been hard on Hillary - and soft on Obama, from the very beginning.

Obama may be about to show his fatal flaw, which is his ever-expanding ego...some speculate that instead of offering Senator Clinton the VP slot, he will select someone more like himself, or a male Clinton surrogate instead. I suspect those die-hard Clinton supporters will reject this action, and therefore reject Obama in the fall.

Hillary continues to run a magnificent race, but now it's up to Obama to unite the party...or throw it all away.

Phoen-X

It is up to Obama to unite the Party or throw it all away? Well, selecting HRC as veep will not unite the Party, but will rather throw Obama's best selling points (his outsider status, his standing on convictions rather than polling triangulations) away.

I look at it differently. Clinton has run an historic race. It is now up to her supporters whether that will be good history (for the Party and for Feminisim) or bad history. If Clinton supporters reject Obama, it will be bad history -- and they will be throwing everything Hillary stands for and ran on away.

Beathan

There was a time in the recent past when Hillary suggested Obama be her running-mate, I say it's time Obama returns the favor, we are looking at almost half of the whole Democratic Party supporting Hillary, I would say being offered the VP slot is not too much to ask considering this, also, Obama could really use the experience of both the Clintons.

Phoen-X

Have none of you considered the possibility that Hillary has no interest whatsoever in the Vice Presidency?

I can't understand why she would want the job.

scooterhedrick:

You want to take that chance?

You want to assume that McCain's not just blowing smoke up your ass to get your vote?

You want to assume he won't pull a Bush and say he's going to reduce taxes when actually he cuts services to underserved citizens and moves the money to his cronies (a tax wash)? Kind of like the tax holiday. BTW did you know that China and Saudi Arabia are fronting the funds for your "rebate checks"?

You assume he will receive no preassure from the right-wing to install anti-choice supreme court judges?

You assume he won't change his mind about staying in Iraq for 100 years. He's already flip-flopped once (now it's what 2010?).

You assume he won't have a senior moment and actually push the button?

If he gets elected what makes you think he won't take that as approval of the Republican agenda and proceed like the last 8 years?

Stupid, arrogant, vicious, unchristian....if McCain is elected we will get what we deserve and I will have no sympathy for the "uneducated poor white working class" and turncoat Dems that put him into office.

My pension and insurance are secure, my house and car are paid off and my wife is past child bearing years so destruction of the democratic platform will hurt others before it hurts me.

God Bless America if John McCain's elected....we will need it.

Yeah, I guess you are probably right. Voting republican is just a pretty big risk.

Good point.

blueshift:

Hello Jeqal, and other Hillary supporters,

Although I disagree with pretty much all of your interpretations, I can at least understand why you would believe most of what you do. What I can't understand is your last two sentences here.

"Obama has been the worst at this also, I feel as if he is some throw back from the 50s. His choice of a wife is pretty indicative of how stupid he thinks women are."

I mean she is obviously very intelligent, talented, and successful and independent. I know she's made some statements that cause people to question her patriotism, but I hope that you understand blind patriotism is not such a great attribute. So, what is wrong with her? More, what about him "choosing her" (as if she didn't also choose him) indicates a low opinion of him.

As for the other part of your statement, how specifically has he been the worst. If not the worst, how has he himself demonstrated a lack of respect for women ("sweetie" flap I know, but disagree with you about probably).

Oh and tangentially, I think most male news anchors are pretty dumb and chosen for looking good on tv also.

Regards,

Blueshift

Thanks for being so thoughtful earlier today, Blueshift and congratulations on Obama's big win in Oregon tonight!

Even though most of this post was addressed to jegal ..I know you have these questions so I'll do my best with them if I can...I really can't say or know for sure what she means exactly about the 1950s' reference but I'm guessing she might mean it all seems like so much of the mass conformity mind set of the 1950;s

That mass conformity was actually what we as the old 1960s generation rebelled against so strongly.

People forget. They think it was all about just the Viet Nam War and sex drugs and rock n roll but the very early impetus and bit anger among the boomers was this fight against mass conformity to one mind-set we saw in our parents lives.You know we fought for Free Thinking and to get away from the old 9-5 mass conformity lifestyle.

That's what some may be thinking again today when they see people just seeming to jump on board en masse the next new thing:Obama..with what seems to some of us very little scrutiny or concern about any questions that may arise in regards to him.The idea of just mass following along of one guy. He's just a guy, at the end of the day. See? It looks frightening to some of us when we see this sort of mass worship like adoration of just a guy,Obama.

It just seems a bit over the top, that's all.

But to you it must seem wonderful, I can imagine, because you believe in what he is saying what you hear you think is great...and he is pulling huge crowds and his supporters are dedicated so I bet he will win. And I just hope he's all you hope for. I do of course. I do want what's best for my country.

I just hope it is.

After tonight I assume he will win now in the general. So, really you and no one else should worry about the very few dems that won't vote for him..I'm sure they mostly all will get on board with Obama.

So not to fret.

Who knows although I think I won't change my mind..who knows..things never stay the same...anything can happen.

On Michelle's patriotism statements..those didn't bother me too much after I thought about it. At first it did but really she probably just meant this all surprised her that so many middle Americans would vote for her husband. Nothing wrong with that.

The 'sweetie' flap showed desperation on the Hillary Camps' front because come on..it wasn't that big a deal..I often find myself using honey and sweetie to cashiers and such and then often do think to myself, "oh dear that must sound a bit condescending" and I vow not to repeat it but then still do at times when I'm rushed..so that was no big deal either.

I hope jegal comes back soon and maybe she can tell me if I was close to what she meant. For all I know she was thinking along a different angle on that.

That's kind of how I thought what she meant though.

I don't know if any of that helps,blueshift...but looks like things are going very well for Obama..so I don't think any few who still are just not sure about things should worry you.

You seem like a good guy..wishing you all the best whatever happens.

Thanks for being patient today.

Phoen-X:

Congratulations on writing another well done, editor selected piece Laurie!

Yes, the media, Matthews, Olbermann, etc., have been hard on Hillary - and soft on Obama, from the very beginning.

Obama may be about to show his fatal flaw, which is his ever-expanding ego...some speculate that instead of offering Senator Clinton the VP slot, he will select someone more like himself, or a male Clinton surrogate instead. I suspect those die-hard Clinton supporters will reject this action, and therefore reject Obama in the fall.

Hillary continues to run a magnificent race, but now it's up to Obama to unite the party...or throw it all away.

Phoen-X

Hi friend! SO good to see you here!

Quite a night,eh?
I know, about MSNBC and they sure are really good for Obama.That's for sure.;-)

She did run a great race. I so admire her for that,Phoen-X!

I think Hillary's looking at Ted Kennedy's place in the Senate as the next big Senate Honcho. I wouldn't be surprised if a deal is being cut with her on that already.

The DNC wants her to concede peacefully at any cost, damn near.

She probably would do well in the position that he held in the Senate and would like the power that he wielded in The Capitol Building.

It will all work out one way or other for everyone.. Life goes on.

Thank you, as always..I'll email soon.

;-)

Davelias12:

"Florida and Michigan? She should be held to fire for this, but she's not."

No, she should not be blamed for Forida and Michigan. Obama removed his name from each state's ballot of his own accord. The DNC did not require it. As a result he created the potential for losing both states to te Repubs in 2008. They are swing states with a margin of less than 5% deciding the outcome.

If you wish scapegoats, look to Dean and Brazile.

Beathan:

It will not be feminists that decide the course of the Michigan vote. This time it will be the lack of interest on the part of the Democratic party in Michigan issues in favor of New Hampshire and Iowa. Potentially both Michigan and Florida will swing, and they are swing states, to the Repubs in 2008. Michigan has voted Dem by slight margins; but in 2008, the antics of Dean, Brazile, and the DNC have alienated many independent and Dem voters in Michigan. You are targeting the wrong reasons.

Obama is way too late in showing an interest in Michigan and quite a bit of the damage has been done by his lack of interest, the same as Kerry's canceling of a trip to Detroit in 2004. The state states a good chance of voting Repub in 2008 after successive votes for Dems since 1992.

"No, she should not be blamed for Forida and Michigan. Obama removed his name from each state's ballot of his own accord. The DNC did not require it. As a result he created the potential for losing both states to te Repubs in 2008. They are swing states with a margin of less than 5% deciding the outcome.
If you wish scapegoats, look to Dean and Brazile."


She should be held to the fire for openly supporting the decision to strip FL and MI, and then rescinding her position.

She signed the pledge and commented on the insignificance of the vote. Only now does she call for the votes (of an unfair election) to be counted. That was my point.

i posted this elsewhere but think this is where i should have offered my 2 cents.

getting past the absurdity of needing to compare the 2 in the first place i would first like to say they both basically have the same root causes and are manifested in very similar ways.

1) they both initially stem from male/white male fear of threat to their power and status.

2) these attitudes are perpetuated by victims of these attitudes as they compete with each other for a higher place on the ladder.

as a straight white guy, i am vividly aware of how wonderful it is to walk down the middle of a dark empty street at 1 am and have no sense of fear. though i'm not directly impacted by either outrage, as a friend and partner to both women and many who are not of white european origin i have seen first hand in many excruciatingly enraging and painful ways, the effects that racism/sexism/misogyny has had on people in my life.

again, to say that one is worse than the other is absurd. but to say that one is being fought against with considerably less vigor and passion in the mainstream would be tragically accurate.

the 2 links below indicate why at the moment i think sexism/misogyny needs to be examined with same vigor and outrage that racist attitudes are currently met with.

you will note in the first link that african american women are more likely to die than white women.

in the second link there is no indication of how race is a factor but i have no doubt it must play a role.

how this translates into why hillary has had a raw deal (no that hasnt been her only obstacle - just the biggest and least acknowledged) than obama is simply that hating women is still a relatively invisible mainstream precept in todays society.

<link>

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i look forward to your thoughts.

Davelias:

But was her name on the ballot in either state as opposed to Obama? It was. And look who finally showed up at the party in Michigan to establish a headquarters? Obama. Clinton has had a presence in Michigan since the Michigan primary in January. Obama has not had a presence here, in a state that has been won by less than 5% of the vote.

I can not find where she openly supported the decision on Michigan. Ickes did make a remark as a super delegate. Getting down to the nitty gritty though, it will not matter as much as appearances in a state that is a swing state, where so little matters to get people riled up or convinced the other side has the answer. The Dems have again snubbed their nose at Michigan, the same as in 2004. From my perspective, it does not look good for a Dem win in Michigan.

Thanks Laurie.

You know I was thinking about this last night and realized that I hadn't addressed any questions directly to you. So I appreciate you stepping up and trying to explain your thoughts and side.

I have to say that I hate the conformist label, but I know thats a perception that we've gotten and I think I understand why. Personally, I've never been to a rally of his and never felt the need to.

As for your original post, I think you are right. her run did change the shape of politics to come and she should be proud of that, as should all feminists. Also, she's not going anywhere. As you mentioned in another post this morning, she will most likely have a position of power in the senate for a long time.

Regards,

Blueshift