As a non-Black minority in the United States I have to agree that race does in fact matter. As a graduate student in Education the overwhelming literature and data that I have come across in regards to this issue is nothing less than problematic.

My current paper revolves around the issue that there is an increasing number of White-middle class teachers who are placed in classrooms that are so diverse these teachers are not aware of how to be culturally responsible. Why? Well, many reasons. Some are just completely unaware of what culture is and what it means. Others have been poorly prepared in multicultural education by there teacher education programs. But a common denominator that I find interesting is that White teachers tend to view the students as the problem, as opposed to their teaching techniques. If this is the platform in which minority students-specfically African American- are addressed how is learning ever to take place?

In Contrast, looking at charter schools that are centered around Afro-centric teaching it is amazing the results these students are achieving. High test scores, High percentage of college acceptance, and a high regard for learning. This happens just by placing a teacher that resembles the students and a curriculum that isn't ethnocentric. There is something to be said about African Americans overall success when placed in minority rich environments. Take a look higher education as well and I believe you will see similar results.

I think it rather humerous to see White Americas discourse on equality when they themselves do things on a daily basis to perpetuate racism-as subtle as it may be, it is still there. Unfourtunetly, I do not see it going anywhere anytime soon. Racism is so embedded in society that is has become ingrained within its people. Unlearning racism will take time and in this country its an ongoing process.

My husband is African American, he is well educated professional but he still comes home everyday and has at least one incident in which he feels that he is reminded that he is Black-regardless if he's in a suit, regardless if he's got the same degree or higher than the person next to him. I see how Whites treat him, look at him and it saddens me. I will Never know, or claim to know what he goes through on a day to day basis. But I do know that Racism is alive and well-more so than many wish to believe.

But a common denominator that I find interesting is that White teachers tend to view the students as the problem, as opposed to their teaching techniques. If this is the platform in which minority students-specfically African American- are addressed how is learning ever to take place?

I'll not argue with this explanation, since it probably figured into why I had so much trouble with the discipline part of my teaching responsibilities. Coming from Iowa where achievement, on the whole, is so much higher, I had what was once called "missionary zeal" in seeing myself as the solution to whatever ailed the black community, the purveyor of knowledge and upwardly-mobile ambition. Perhaps it was my ADD, perhaps it was my over-achieving mother (twice Teacher-of-the-Year) and perhaps it was the lousy administrators to whose care I was entrusted, but at any rate, the results were less-than-satisfactory. While some of my students actually did achieve because of (or despite) my methods, the lower-performers acted out and I didn't deal with them well. Perhaps it was my "fault" that I judged the lazy as such; maybe I didn't install self-esteem within each lesson plan, but those few students were the bain of my existence.

Since then, I've married a black woman who had instilled in me the defensive equipment necessary to counteract their barbs aimed at my occasional faux-pas comments and actions and provided a key insight into why they behaved as such. Just having that insight did not necessarily increase my sympathy, though it did widen, somewhat the range of those I could help. I'm still at a loss, however, what to do with the New Orleans-originating "Katrina" evacuees who seem to take every opportunity to subvert my classroom disipline, as it is, and the lesson I've planned. (Said aloud twice: "You never teach-all you make us do is read and write!")

I also find it interesting that Indigo and others who once posted such virulent attacks have disappeared once they've been countered. (My wife predicted that would happen as well).

Hello. I must say that this discussion is very interesting. I am a 'white' person from Eastern Europe (an actual foreign citizen, studying here in the US, not an American of remote European ancestry). At least most 'black' people in my neighbourhood here in Philadelphia consider me 'white'. I do not have much experience with the Afro-American community or the busing problem, so I will not speak to that. But what I can speak to (and since soulgroove has mentioned 'whites' from outside the US who do not think of 'blacks' as a problem) is generalized racism within what 'blacks' in the US think is a homogeneous 'white' group.

People from all over the world form in-group/out-group categories within their own 'racial big groups' - I am not at this time speaking about the immigrants. Within Europe, a tacit agreement exists that North is better than South and West better than East. During the last World Cup in Germany, when Italy played the hosts in the semifinals, the online version of the main German magazine Der Spiegel published an article on how Italians were swarthy and lazy! Meanwhile, the Northern League in Italy that wants to separate from the Republic is often seen as hating Sicilians because of their skin colour. At one time even the Irish were considered 'black' by the English (and to a certain degree there are still many people who believe that Irish are 'racially different' from the English). Finally, Russians consider Armenians, Georgians, Balkan people, and Greeks 'blacks' and in fact use the same racist names that 'white' Americans at one time used for 'black Americans'.

Yet to most 'black' American people to whom I've spoken, this makes no sense because to them the fundamental racial problem is the 'black'-'white' one - 'White' is all the same, whether you come from Greece or Norway or Afghanistan. But 'white' people hate each other with equal passion as any two rival human groups - just look at Kosovo, Bosnia, N. Ireland etc. My main point is that by adhering to the theory that the black-white divide truly exists intrinsically, and is justified by actual phenotypic factors, and that one must be on one camp or another, Afro-Americans are doing a disservice to themselves - they are reinforcing it and it comes back to haunt them.

From a sympathetic European, good luck with your integration. And please, no posts about how I am a dumb white foreigner so I can't understand the problem. I am not an idiot. Thanks.

Reading this post reminds me of conservative Dinesh D'Souza's puzzlement over the complexity of the black/white issue. He makes many of the same points you do.

I do remember from college, however, that the one factor that is hardest to bridge in the entire world is skin color. Every Euro-based society has, at one time, placed blacks at the lowest end of the totem pole (see: Portugal, macaque). Surprisingly, this factor plays larger in most societies than culture.

John McWhorter (Losing the Race) is the only black writer I've seen who goes into detail to find the roots of victimology then disaparages this pointless excuse for failure. You'll not see public praises of his work from the black separatists, however, partly because he says too many things they don't want to hear.

Your defense of the reverse racism of Soulgroove07 is insupportable. He/she is guilty of olding the innocent accountable for the crimes of the guilty AND racism.

They always have. You need to throw out some of yours, and so do Soulgroove07 and Gringo.

This whole post and many of the below responses are so sad and yet so indicative of what is wrong with our greater society.

I grew up in a white girl in middle class neighborhoods, but was always taught to see a person for who they were, not for what they look like. While I agree that people gravitate towards those most like them, I have always had friends of all color, sizes, gender, religion, and sexual orientation. I have never been discriminated against for being female, straight, or Christian, but I was often screamed at for being white. The hallway that lead to the theater in my high school was the hangout area for a large amount of black kids. They would holler disparaging white girl remarks, throw things at me, and generally act like racist idiots. As a teacher's assistant my Senior year I got to see two students go unreprimanded for cheating because thier mothers cried racism.

Later as a military member I have seen non-white individuals get away with being general jackassess because thier superiors are afriad of being hit with and MEO complaint.

My younger cousin dated a black boy who lived across the street from her for over a year. He was always treated with respect and welcome at family functions. The one time he took her to a family BBQ of his, none of his relatives would allow him to borrow a car to take her home because they didn't want a white girl "staining" their cars. She wanted to leave in the first place because his cousins were pretending to smell her and taunting her as being a "stanky white girl".

I went to the movies in Baltimore to see "The Pursuit of Happyness" and had to sit through audience remarks about how terrible it was that all he (the Will Smith character) cared about was acting like he was white.

I have heard songs in public places celebrating killing police and white people, calling women hos and b****s, and referring to their friends and family as the so-called N-word. There is BET, Jet, Essence, Ebony, ect. Can you IMAGINE the response if someone came out with an "Ivory" magazine?

None of this is to say that racism against black Americans no longer exists, becuase it does and will continue to as distrust of the unknown is human nature. HOWEVER it is very hard to raise my kids to be openminded and non-judgemental in a society in which racism against whites is so flagrant and so ignored. I can only hope that the example of such class acts as Barak Obama can teach that it is ok to respect yourself and get an education, and that to do so does not mean you are "acting white" but simply bettering yourself as a member of society and the HUMAN race.

If we were to assume that urban poor blacks are roughly on the same level as Southern poor "rednecks," then we'd see this problem crystallized. While it is fun and somehow "politically correct" to make fun of the rednecks (thanks to Jeff Foxworthy, Bill Engvall, et. al.) any sustained attempt to shine a spotlight on black ignorance would be tantamount to a race riot. Until these folks can laugh at themselves and allow others to do so, the "N" word will never be buried and the intragenerational poverty will continue until the next "Katrina" disaster exposed the self-propagating behavior of the poor and ignorant.

Put a book in one of those hands and ignorance will likely dissipate.

donjohn5 wrote the following post at 07-09-2007 5:33 PM:

I realize I sound racist in making the "black" comments, but put my posts together and I hope you'll see that I understand that skin color has nothing to do with intelligence or teaching skills, but that culture does. Furthermore, the politics of race make it an issue by separating scores of students and teachers, thereby heightening the contrast.

I come from a Midwest culture where a high reading level is assumed, where, as Garrison Keillor put it, we were nearly all "above average." Black kids in Iowa performed about as well as their white counterparts, so I had no preconceptions about that coming to Houston (which recruits teachers in Iowa colleges quite heavily). Imagine the culture shock when I found and found the dramatically lowered standards, even among my colleagues. Two of the coaches who were to teach Geography had no idea how to figure out latitude and longitude! Though I found the TECAT test to be ridiculously easy, several teachers in my school had taken it numerous times without passing it.

I hear you donjohn. It seems that the issue on the table in this post is that of differing standards in different states/ regions for teachers and students, and as you stated, culture. It seems that we can agree on that! Of course, the standards for teachers, as well as numerous other factors in the educational/political equation affects the education the students get. In the public school arena, I learned while prepping for the Praxis that every state chooses its own passing rate for their required teacher certification tests. I wasn't very surprised to find that VA, along with Vermont, and 1 or 2 other states, had the highest requirements. So a lot of would-be teachers were nervous about taking it and/or did not pass it. Your comments about the Midwest culture of reading were enlightening, and help me to understand your vantage point as a human being and an educator. I "get" that. Sounds like you were thrown into a bit of a culture shock coming out of the Midwest, and particularly during your experiences in Houston.

This thread makes me realize that race is actually simply one factor in this particular convo. The issue of differing educational standards and outcomes is fascinating in this country, when you look at the effect of socio-economic group, race, culture, region, religion's effect. I have a friend who taught for a year at a college in Tennessee. He had taught, b4 that, at colleges on the Eastern seaboard and the Midwest. He found that in TN, the (mostly white) students had suffered from a disadvantage - their GPAs had all been inflated, they could not "think" as well as he was accustomed to college level students thinking, and they could not seem to fathom that it was possible for the religious upbringing that they shared (bible belt territory) to co-exist with critical thinking. They would stare at him in shocked silence as he posed rhetorical questions and genuinely (at least in the beginning) expected them to respond. So there was this whole culture, heavily influenced by a certain Southern Baptist flavor, that had resulted in this sort of "non thinking" that had not equipped these students for college-level thinking. And it had nothing to do with race.

I read one poster's comments on Europe, and I guess my comments kind of echo that. It's always more complicated than black and white. There's region, class, religion, gender, and so on and on. I get the Irish thing, am fascinated by it actually, the history of "white" man against "white" man and "black" against "black" - how did we get over here anyway, if not for Africans selling Africans? Yes, the story of divisiveness goes beyond white vs. black. But the history of *this* country is the result of a particular brand of white subjectivity that relied/relies on the black object. This is not Ireland or Darfur. This is America. Our history happened the way it did. The best we can do is look at the history and present of mankind, realizing that we - human beings - in our worst moments, tend to grasp at any difference and make it a dividing factor. It also means that America has a unique history, like Europe and Africa's unique history. I find our country's regional differences more fascinating than race - southern blacks and whites share a culture as do northern blacks and whites, as do midwesterners, which certainly speaks to your experience in Iowa, where everyone is an overachiever and a reader. I find that fascinating. If only we could start to talk about race as *a* factor, rather than *the* factor.

You mentioned Obama. I find him fascinating because of what he represents. Of African and European American descent, his "blackness" has been questioned by some blacks. What foolishness. But maybe his very existence in the public eye will start a new conversation about what it means to be "black" or "white" or "American" or African or European or Southern or Northern or Midwestern or Christian or Jewish or any number of labels that we use to define ourselves and each other. Maybe we'll start to understand that there are an infinite number of overlapping lines, the universe expressing itself over and over in infinite ways.

Indigo

I haven't read this book, but it sounds interesting, I'll take a look. I think separation is very difficult to achieve in any significant way, partly because it would require the shedding of many many socio-cultural traits inherited from Euro-Americans, notably the English language and all the Afro-American literature that was written in it (after all, Afro-Americans have more Nobel prizes in literature than most countries in the world!!). Not to speak of the immediate potential for within-group fighting over who's got the purest African blood, and possibly purges of 'race-traitors.' Sounds like a dangerous idea to me (Tito achieved peace in Yugoslavia by forcing people to integrate - eventually it didn't work, but other examples have shown that it can have good results as well - for instance Richelieu's forced integration of the different native French minorities).

Integration has the advantage of offering counterexamples to the established prejudice. After all, prejudices are shortcuts, but if they prove self-contradictory, people are forced to change their point of view. Well, people who think. With the rest, there is nothing to be done.

Jen13 wrote the following post at 07-11-2007 1:38 PM:

I have heard songs in public places celebrating killing police and white people, calling women hos and b****s, and referring to their friends and family as the so-called N-word. There is BET, Jet, Essence, Ebony, ect. Can you IMAGINE the response if someone came out with an "Ivory" magazine?

Jen13, the only reason there is an Ebony magazine is that before blacks started creating publications that spoke to and featured them as other than chattel and later, trouble makers/felons were those that they created themselves. Prior to that, every magazine in the U.S. *was* Ivory, they just had different titles. Do you understand the history of racism in this country? Do you understand why magazines like Ebony exist? The world used to be different from the way it is today, when Oprah and a handful of other blacks have been featured on the cover of Vanity Fair and Vogue. Those covers happened in the wake of the civil rights movement and a lot of people died so we can have this patched and bloodied but still beautiful and limping along world we have today. Prior to that, not only were all the magazines "Ivory," so were the Oscars, and public stores and lunch counters. Black women couldn't try on a hat in a department store. Are you familiar with the history of this country? That is why there is an Ebony. Because there was already an Ivory.

The experiences with reverse racism that you have had sound horrific. I am sorry to hear about them. I hope we all continue to better ourselves as members of society and the human race. Ebony is a vestige of an earlier time; while there is still a need/market for it, the market is different; there are other opportunities for blacks in the media. The manifestation of black magazines for blacks came about at a time when there was no positive coverage of black life, yet those magazines still exist today. Other effects of and responses to racism in America, such as the reverse racism you mention, exist today as well. As William Faulkner stated: "The past isn't dead. It isn't even past." And that old chestnut about how if you don't know your past, you can't change your present. And the fact that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. I hope that we can stop blaming each other, and, as human beings, rise above the hurt we experience at the hands of ourselves and each others, sometimes based on race, sometimes on some other dividing factor. I truly hope we can, as you said, continue to better ourselves as human beings.

Indigo

Yes, clearly I understand that the world used to be "Ivory", I fully support the idea of black History month and Latino history month and all the rest, my developing countries lit class (featuring many African authors) was one of my favorites. But in today's society I find race-specific media divisive and unneccessary. Popular culture is hip-hop. Oprah is like a god. Jamie Foxx and Halle Berry and Prince are Oscar winners. Magazines and television feature people of all colors. Yet there are still members of the black community that refuse to see that discrimination is no longer the norm. It would be different if such publications targeted actual Africans, because they have different languages and vastly different cultures. But if you were born and raised in America by American parents and speak plain old American English you are AMERICAN. It's not like I walk around referring to myself as Irish-American. That is my family heritage and I embrace it, but it doesn't define me at all.

Can you not even consider that maybe in this day in age it is wrong that black people are the only ones allowed to discriminate? That it is perfectly ok for this guy to say (in short) "I hate white people" and for many others to echo those sentiments? I personally find it appalling. How can anyone ever expect to achieve equality when they strive so hard to keep themselves apart?

Tired of hearing about racisim in the south. In my visits to the north I see alot of predominantly white areas and if you talk to them you find out they dont want a heavily black neighborhood. From about the Virginia line on up it seems to be that way. The black/white ratio in the south is very high. As to us southerners being the cause of or maintaining racisim is another load of crock. I was at the beggining of the busing nightmare...I am white...I remember the fights and the give me quarter white boy as you were backed up in the corner in a bathroom, Ive seen guys heads stuffed in toilets,the weapons the whole nine yards!! The black race wants to blame US???? There is a way to end racisim....as soon as the black race ends it.....When they find out that they too must work long hours and strive and fight to survive just as we do nothing is handed to a white male, to end racisim nothing should be handed to them either..the "special considerations "must end. Forced integration will only continue the problem...society must integrate naturally and voluntarily and black people have to quit blaming white society for their problems and join the rest of the world instead of trying to force cultural differneces on us and telling the world that we have to make allowances for them.

I haven't read the above posts and I don't care to listen to any of the indignant and angry responses of people who are looking for vindication/or justification for their own racist viewpoints. I will simply say this: without racial integration, there can be no progress in creating a "color blind" or egalitarian society. Certainly, being a minority student (of any race) in a school is a difficult and challanging position to be in, both emotionally and intellectually, but, to be it simply: no pain, no gain. Sure, it would be easy to accept the status quo and retreat to our safe and comfortingly homongeous neighborhoods where we can complain about those "other" people, but then nothing is accomplished except to reinforce the feelings of xenophobia and distrust that already exist. It seems that some African-Americans are exasperated with the results of their effort to integrate, but there is a strong tone of, well, intolerance and hate in their posts that belies their efforts: tolerance is a two way street and assuming an attitude of victimization is not a long term answer. Simply put (and this applies to all "races"): stop trying to fabricate a racial identity that is based on opposition to a stated "other". Many of the black students in my high school were not of a disadvantaged financial position (I went to a private school) yet they continued to assert strong "hood" attitudes. Why was this? Was it because they saw that their own "blackness" was skin deep? To suggest that your culture is homogenous and somehow natural and right is to deny the variability and individuality that exists in every person and is an easy way to hamstring true understanding and the development of mutual respect between individuals.

It is easy to claim that the other side is racist and intolerant, but its harder still to see that the very defenses you have against maltreatment (a strong concept of social and behavioral unity along physical characteristcs for starters) serve to perpetuate the problem by encouraging the young to "respect their traditions" (which seems to be whatever your parents and grandparents did when they didn't know any better or different). An earlier post spoke about how the white students in his high school racially excluded themselves...my answer: when was the last time a black kid asked a white one home for dinner?