& the tool that drives them;

The Koran:

Sura 9:5 - When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them.

Sura 9:12 - But if, after coming to terms with you, they break their oaths and revile your faith, make war on the leaders of unbelief.

Sura 9:14 - Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them and heal the spirits of the faithful.

Sura 9:19 - Do you pretend that he who gives a drink to the pilgrims and pays a visit to the Sacred Mosque is as worthy as the man who believes in Allah and the Last Day, and fights for Allah's cause. Those are not held equal by Allah.

Sura 9:29 - Fight against such of those to whom the Scriptures were given as believe in neither Allah nor the Last Day, who do not forbid what Allah and His Apostle have forbidden, and do not embrace the true faith, until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued.

("His Apostle" refers to Muhammed)


Sura 9:73 - Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.

("Prophet" refers to Muhammed)


Sura 9:123 - Believers, make war on the infidel who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that Allah is with the righteous.

Sura 17:33 - You shall not kill any man whom Allah has forbidden you to kill, except for a just cause. (Repeated in Sura 25.67)

Sura 2:193 - Fight against them (unbelievers) until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. But if they desist, fight none except the evildoers

Sad.

Best Regards

Lobato1

who drove the last Moors from Iberia in (remember?) 1492.

Personally, I prefer true children of Roderigo, El Cid Campeador.. who did battle FOR Islam as often as he did AGAINST Islam. And who opposed unjust kings, whether they were Christianos or Moriscos.

But, then... it is (I suppose) all just ancient history now.

Juanito

Almost "SIX" centuries ago,

Enjoy : <link>

& our Church's progress is "Light" years away from those days up to the present Vatican II.

But Islam is where it was >>15 hundred years ago.

A "Couple" more quotes from the Koran:
by Lobato1c
11/07/2009, 2:38 PM

Sura 2:216 - Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it.

Sura 4:101,104 - The unbelievers are your sworn enemies … Seek out your enemies relentlessly.

Sura 5:17,33 - Unbelievers are those who declare: "Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary" … Those that make war against Allah and His apostle and spread disorder in the land shall be put to death or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or be banished from the country.

Sura 8:39 - Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah’s religion reigns supreme.

Sura 9:5 - … slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and be in ambush everywhere for them.

Sad.

Best Regards

Lobato1

It is not about the Inquisition. It is about loving one's fellow man.. and about ethnic ffigging cleansing of Espania.

The acceptance of Jews and Christians along with Muslims at the Grand Court of Cordoba was greater.. and the light of the Moorish Enlightenment shone brighter... than anything to be found in those days north of the Pyrenees ... and without it, we would never have had the RamBam or the RamBan... or most of the European Enlightenment. And we might well have had another millenium of Autos-da-Fe. Surely that is not what you would want, amigo??

Frankly, I like Francisco de Assisi better than Francisco Franco. And I like the Holy Qu'ran better than Opus Dei.... well, at least mostly.

Juanito

But you insist on spinning away from this theme & being a friend I feel obligated to change this original theme so okay & for once I'll go with your Spanish history & in your words not mine:

shep:

It is not about the Inquisition. It is about loving one's fellow man.. and about ethnic ffigging cleansing of Espania.

The acceptance of Jews and Christians along with Muslims at the Grand Court of Cordoba was greater.. and the light of the Moorish Enlightenment shone brighter... than anything to be found in those days north of the Pyrenees ... and without it, we would never have had the RamBam or the RamBan... or most of the European Enlightenment. And we might well have had another millenium of Autos-da-Fe. Surely that is not what you would want, amigo??

Frankly, I like Francisco de Assisi better than Francisco Franco. And I like the Holy Qu'ran better than Opus Dei.... well, at least mostly.

Juanito

Lets start with the evil "Fascist" Franco single-handedly plotting, overthrowing, raping, plundering & murdering a democratic peaceful Republic that came into existence after the fall of Primo de Rivera's government that had tried to protect his king's military fiasco in Morocco by declaring, "La Dictarura."

The problem with this thesis & that Spanish Socialist shout from all public podiums is that it’s full of holes making this fairytale an outright lie.

What modern day Spanish Socialist fail to remember is that it was General Mola that engineered the military revolt the previous year & Franco refused to join them at that time.

Then in the following year elections in February 1936, it was the right wing's "Popular Front" that won the elections which the government of Largo Caballero then refused to recognize Click Here; Largo Caballero blocked elections won by Frente Popular

Largo Caballero had formed a coalition with the Stalinist Communist whom had formed their own police, the infamous Chekas Click here; Las Chekas patterned after those in the USSR,

(versus the Marxist POUM ruling in Catalunia & that the Stalinist Communist murdered at la Generalitat in Barcelona on the eve of "La Batalla del Ebro"),

In addition to the Chekas, the labor unions had their own military militias & between all of them imparted their justice like burning alive a couple of Escolapio priest in Malaga, burning churches such as that at, "Los Cerros de Los Angeles" murdering land-owners & since these had fled, murdering their foremen (as described by "El Cordobes" in his book "No Llevaras Luto Por Mi" of the evens in Andalucía), etc., etc., etc.

But then after the February elections, the murdering of politicians of the Right went into high gear & when Calvo Sotelo was murdered, Franco join the plot saying "El orden esta en la calles" (mob rule justice).

Once the revolt started in July, it was Mola in the North that led the revolt (not Franco), but the "Junta" got nowhere & it was Franco coming from the south that advanced all the way to Madrid.

Therefore when the Military Junta gathered at Burgos in October 1936, the Senior Generals agreed to designate their youngest general to head "El Movimiento Nacional"

------------------------------

Now if you wish, we can continue this debate as to The Pope, Franco, the Spanish Opus Dei & their unrecognized work on behalf of saving more than a million Jews under the disguise of, "Safarditas," in view of the infamous & shameful SS Saint Louis affair in 1939 Click here: SS Saint Louis Affair

Best Regards

Lobato1

My contention is simply that Muslims are no threat to the West. Out threats are home-grown: Opus Dei, American Protestant Fundamentalism (especially Dominion Theology and their utterly cynical support for Zionism), and the Rush Limbaughs of the Western World.

Socialists scare me much less than do Fascists.

And, please, G-d, protect us from Your True Believers.

Later, amigo mio.

Jack

Best Regards

Lobato1

I'd rather worry about drunken drivers, climate-change deniers, and Limbaughs that go bump in the night.

9/11 was NOT Stalingrad. It was NOT Dachau.It was not the First Battle of the Marne. It was not even Okinawa. It was (setting aside our chauvinistic national pride and stupid illusions of Superpower invulnerability) not much more than a pimple on the national nose on Prom-night.

We all die. Any disease worthy of one second-year medical school lecture kills far more folks in a year than all them thar baaad-assed alQueida turrurrrusts managed to do on 9/11.

Just a bit less than one one-thousandth of one percent of our population ... to be exact. Proportionally speaking, I believe we Yanks have lost all sense of proportion here.

Juanito

Best Regards

Lobato1