Since my top post was in admiration for Obama, I knew some of the right wing horde would come a calling with their despair, fear and ignorance. I think you should try to keep that little scared boy in the closet next time you think about Obama, there really is nothing to fear but fear itself, you could look it up. What astounds me about folks like you and JD is that you have such strong feelings for a man who is attempting to elevate the entire process and debate within an election itself. Imagine that, a candidate that really, truly attempts to take the high road. Disagree with him on the merits but leave the rest of the nonsense out of the equation. Given your litmus test, all of us should just stop frequenting the Fray, we have plenty of wacked out posters that would make Wright look like a saint.

so, it doesnt bother you...good to know...

I agree. I think in Obama's candidacy we have a once-in-a-generation opportunity to vote for the best and brightest America has to offer. If we elect him it will make me that much more proud to be an American.

This man is a giant already and he is just a young man. It will say much about us if we destroy him because we cannot give up our anger, hate and divisiveness.

You can already see some who can't give up. They're posting replies in this thread.

To me, Obama's speech said two things. First, "hey, I'm a black man. Do you think that means I grew up in Kennebunkport and I just put on the color when I go outside?" I think this puts the Rev. Wright issue to bed.

Second, he said that the divisive politics in this country over the past few decades really needs to end, and he is inviting people who agree with that proposition to vote for him. George Bush, if he won the elections at all, won with large numbers of people voting against him, yet governed as though he had a strong mandate for very divisive policies. Do you doubt that Hillary, if she wins, will do the same? Do you think there's a certain shrillness in the way we scream at each other across the political divide in America today? Do you think a Hillary presidency will make that better?

Maybe Obama won't. But if he can't, no one can.

I'm voting for Obama because of his judgment on Iraq. But I watched the speech yesterday and I will follow that man anywhere.

If you didn't come away from the speech with some small measure of that feeling, you didn't watch it with an open mind. Or maybe you didn't watch it at all.

Gee, a giant? Since he said my vote couldn't count, I kind of look on him as a Jim Crow-like voter registrar standing in the courthouse door saying I personally don't count.

Now that he's offering to "allow" my vote if he gets to decide how I voted in January, I kind of look at him like I might look at Vlad Putin--you know, somebody who has no respect whatsoever for basic American values like one-persons one-vote.

He'll never be a credible "new kind of leader" after climbing toward victory over a pile of millions of uncounted votes.

The fancier he talks--the higher the note he strikes, the greater a hypocrite he is.

I'm sorry, I wish my heart strings could be plucked like yours are being, but I've got my eyes open and what I see is more of the same of what we've had--a manipulative, self-interested power-seeking politician who'd cancel votes if it served his purposes.

If he believed in what he claims to champion, he would have said, "Wait a minute! The Democratic Party doesn't void votes in America! This is a democracy!" Instead, he trimmed and is trimming his sails with only one goal in mind--winning: and it doesn't matter how.

You know, bite, sometimes I don't either (understand it). I sense that it's visceral & occurs at some sort of sub-conscious level. But I do know this -- I see great hypocrisy in his constant "rise above it" pose when I know / see / sense / read that his campaign people & his (many) supporters constantly do anything BUT that. They are operating from the gutter & can be very vicious, many of his supporters. I've seen it in their websites & their clearly organized group-think responses with their identical language and I've heard it about/from the many pols & others who are now being HUGELY pressured to vote for him if they are Super Delegates. I just don't buy his Choir Boy act. And of course, he is, very simply, not qualified for the job. This latest blow-up (and again, phony-baloney plea to rise above it) proves that to me, as if I needed further convincing. Thanks for asking.

"right-wing horde" !! How funny. Just goes to show how much you knee-jerk Obama-nauts actually READ the posts of the opposition.

(NOT AT ALL, apparently)

Like Demcon and LaurieAnnM and bite-o and others on here, who do not support BO, I am a DEMOCRAT -- lifelong, registered and very often, an active campaigner. (Unlike yourself, if I remember correctly?) If you really feel your guy is "attempting to elevate the entire process..." and "truly attempts to take the high road," you are dreaming.

And you are twice as naive as i originally had you pegged for.

Wake up and smell the coffee, Woolley -- he is Just Another Pol, except he is SO slick that he has you & the other Kool-Aid drinkers fooled. It would be funny, if it weren't so important. Worse, he is Just Another Pol from one of THE most cynical and corrupt political venues in America, Chicago, Illinois.

P.S. I'm not a guy either and there is NO "little scared boy" in my closet. I just don't like your inexperienced, arrogant, elitist candidate. It's that simple, Woolley. And I think you-all are acting like intoxicated high school girls, swooning over the latest craze guy. Except this one, isn't even good-looking! You want a swooner, you should have gone with John Edwards. :-)

p.p.s., the downrate is NOT personal, W. I have down-rated pro-BO posts every time I'm around.

o.c. She is a camp follower of the 'in-crowd' (self-perceived, that is) pro-BObama clique on here and she will post anything that helps her 'get in' with them. Plus, she is mistaken -- Demcon is NOT Hauteur - I and several other posters, asked him that months ago. And his writing style is conclusively not H's.

I post positively to Demcon because I agree w. his positions on Obama vs. Hillary & because I admire his guts in daring to so post over here in overly-P.C. ObamaMamaland. Also, the poster you replied to here has several Fray-nicks and often talks to herself (she's doing it right here on this thread) within a thread. Funny stuff, actually. She has around eight or nine Fraynicks, currently & in the past, has had as many as 27 at one time. Just so you know.

Fuck off.

You don't seem to be very well-informed about how his campaign people are running this thing, do you? (Or are you just actually THAT naive?) Naive AND arrogant -- it's an amazing combination you people display. The same one as your candidate. "But if he can't, no one can." That's simply borders on the insane, far beyond the mere unrealistic.

Please do us all a favor, Ron. Don't run for elective office, ok? And if you do, don't do it in my home state. Thanks.

Gawd, what a mess. You've pointed out yet another example of BO's hypocrisy very well, thanks. I agree with you 100% on this line: "The fancier he talks -- the higher the note he strikes, the greater a hypocrite he is."

PERFECT !! Thanks for showing up. Anyone who posts anti-BO around this place is quite brave. "L."

talking to yourself again, Cattylin. Doesn't it get kind of old after a while, Ninja Nurse?

Lunesta:

You don't seem to be very well-informed about how his campaign people are running this thing, do you? (Or are you just actually THAT naive?) Naive AND arrogant -- it's an amazing combination you people display. The same one as your candidate. "But if he can't, no one can." That's simply borders on the insane, far beyond the mere unrealistic.

Please do us all a favor, Ron. Don't run for elective office, ok? And if you do, don't do it in my home state. Thanks.

Listen to yourself. You make my point so... shrilly.

I'm from Florida...and it is worse: I'm an independent.

I switch my registration when there is a race I'm really interested in. Never before in my life was I so sure that I'd vote in a primary than I was on the Florida Democratic primary this year.

I could not have imagined voting for a Republican to follow George W. into the White House and then......I was told that if I voted in the Democratic primary, my vote wouldn't count.

Hey! What a surprise! I'm not ready to accept that in America.

Now, for the first time in my life, I'm for sure voting against a Democratic candidate for president even before he or she is chosen.

And worse.....I don't show up on any of the polls being taken! I'm sitting here in a swing state waiting my chance to vote payback and not even registering on the Democratic party operatives screens. I'm a sure loss of one vote and gain of one against.

And I'm not alone. Polls say 30 some percent of Democratic voters here will be less likely to vote Democratic if the primary votes aren't reinstated. That doesn't include the Democrats, who like independents like me are not any less likely to vote against the Democrat if the primary votes remain uncounted--we're just not going to vote for Hillary or Obama no matter what!

In a political process, there ain't much more personal than your very own vote.

I think Florida is lost to the Democrats if they nominate either Hillary or Obama. To win this state, they need somebody well clear of the whole primary mess. The DNC has created a system that can't produce a winner coming out of it. So tainted will be the survivor that I will not view him or her as even a democrat--with the small "d."

I wouldn't be ready to accept it, either. And thanks for an interesting, independent perspective.

But let me ask you this: WHY would you punish Hillary Clinton by automatically not voting for her in the GENERAL election, should things go that way? Obviously, she wants your vote to count in Florida and Michigan -- she has made that very clear, no? I believe you are correct that the DNC has messed things up terribly in this primary process (and possibly, in every primary process or worse, the new caucus states) - so why not 'punish" Howard Dean? I don't see the logic of withholding your vote from HER - she has fought, daily, to get the votes from FL and MI reinstated. Thanks.