Democratic Party. So, basically drive away the middle and you end up with a weak Democratic Party that can never take the White House, except when the fear of the Republicans is so great that it forces people to vote Dem. A piss poor strategy and one that Dean should be fired for allowing. Because in the long run, it destroys the Democratic Party. You see, while you feel that Hillary was a deal breaker, many feel the same about Obama. You have ensured a Republican win. Thanks. Just wanted to confirm that I was right.

is a large group of people who loath Obama. Oh and give me a break about the victimhood of the Obama supporters. You guys did as much spewing as the Clinton supporters. Here's your error. In your justification, you are ruining your candidate's chance. Well, I wonder if this is how you guys run your businesses and your personal lives. You would rather be right than happy?! So, while you are being right, say hello to President McCain.

differnetEllen - surely it is no surprise that some percentage of supporters of ANY candidate will not support any other candidate.

This is not specific to Hillary or Obama. There are Dodd people who will stay home. Giulani supporters too. It is part of the election process.

The problem in the thinking is that 18 million people feel that Obama is a deal breaker. Well, that's just not true. 18 million may have voted for Hillary, that was a choice. And it was a great primary.

But the numbers who will stay home or vote Republican rather than vote for Obama are far far less than 18 million.

Be wherever you want to be - in the Democratic Party, out of it, a voter or an abstainer. Feel the power. Take it. Do whatever you like with it. It's yours.

This is your response to someone who gives you a valid complaint? Is that how you negotiate. Please stay out of politics. You are failing to build consensus. That's what a good candidate does. That's been one of my concerns with Obama. He's has not been reaching out to the working class an explaining to them that he is good for them. When Donna Brazile said on CNN that Obama didn't need the "working class" that was the moment I knew the Dems were sunk. If that mindset rules the party, then we are screwed.

I'm hoping that Obama has better judgement than you guys do. I'm hoping his advisors have better judgement. I'm hoping he has better negotiating skills. At this point, he needs to help people overcome their fears - not tell them what to do.

McCain does have more experience. So, the question in negotiating this fear is what can Obama do to overcome that. Let's say that Clinton is a complete no-go for VP. So, let's look at other VP possibilities. I love Jim Webb, but he also lacks the foreign policy and economic history needed. Obama needs to bring in someone with age, experience and gravitas. So, he had better be looking for a running mate that is at least 15 years his senior AND has extensive experience - in the Senate or a past Cabinet level appointee. Never write off a negotiators fear. The minute you start dismissing them, you have back them into a corner and they aren't going to listen.

If only 10% of the Clinton voters stay home that's almost 2 million people. That's all it takes to shift the loss to Obama. If McCain peels off only 5% that's a million loss to Obama and a million to McCain. It's the same thing. We can't afford to loose ANY of these voters.

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool, bleeding heart liberal. I dispise McCain. I don't love Obama, but I know how to negotiate and build consensus. What's going on right now is such a huge blunder that my breath is taken away. Personally, I have the luxury of living in Massachusetts. I will file a protest vote by writing in Clinton or Edwards. I know where the Electoral College votes of my state will go. But we need a better strategy. You can write off the southern states. While Obama may have won them in the primary that was due to heavy African American turn out. That won't hold in the primaries. So he has to pick up not only traditional Dem states, but most of the swing states and ALL of the western/south western states. He can forget about Arizona completely. The numbers are scary. I've run them half a dozen different ways.

want to win and B) get off your high horse - Obama supporters did the same thing. It wasn't the whole year. Things only got ugly AFTER Super Tuesday.

So, stay on your high horse and win the election or do the adult thing and start negotiating. Your choice. You can be right or you can be happy.

As for caricatures, the Obama supporters are coming off as childish and inexperienced. And yes, you are selling something - a brand. All poliiticians sell a brand. Obama's brand up to know was change and people liked it. Now he has to carefully change his brand to bring in the middle. Hence his AIPAC speech. You are either terribly niave or lying here. When you speak about Obama, you are sellling him. You are his surrogate whether you like it or not.

What you guys should be doing is over and over again pointing out the good instead of going negative. OBAMA WON the primary. Good for him. He's the candidate. That's politics. I'm trying to help you guys see the damage you are doing to your candidate. But hey, if negotiating was something we were all good at, I would probably be out of a job.

Ellen-

If you think that a few dozen writers on a Fray are the tell-tale sign of what is actually going on in the Democratic Party or in any way reflective of the country you are sadly mistaken.

Take a deep breath.

You talk about "writing off the Southern states" - give me a break. There are movements here that would make your toes curl. Dems are winning House seats in Mississippi - with Cheney down there campaigning in person, and they're voting Democrat. Hell, they could get shot and they're voting Dem.

There are reasonable shots especially with Hillary on board so stay in your cocoon, vote your protest and let the rest of us live with the reality.

Obama is phenomenal. With Hillary on board and campaigning for him he will be unstoppable. Even in the South.

And if I were you I'd try to ease off the condescending attitude regarding the south. There are actually lots of us who have been to school, travel and still have our teeth.

If you're so dyed-in-the-wool liberal, and such a long term Feminist, then why won't you risk USING your power for a vote for Obama and supporting him? Why won't you suck up your own ego and think about talking to real fence-sitters about Health care and the eonomy and renewable energy and the war?

Why use your power to throw away a protest vote and write anti-Obama crap all the while protesting what a major feminist and liberal you are?

I think you're missing the point here, just a bit.

Don't think that I don't know that Obama has to reach out to Hillary's supporters and I think he will do a fine job of that. I was a Biden supporter! He reached out to me and got me.

I think writing on this board can give people a very skewed idea of reality. This is a small, small, small self-selecting group. It bears NO resemblance to the real world.

Put Bill in Mississippi and Hillary in Orlando. When they both go to West Virginia and Pennsylvania you will see HORDES Of people switch to Obama.

This is what Hillary and Bill do very well. Give the people what they want. And what people want is celebrity -- they want to feel good -- they want to feel important. Sending Bill, Hillary, Oprah etc all around will be fine.

This Fray stuff -- this is like a family reunion. People come in, yell, scream, bitch, moan and holler. But it matters not at all to the outside world.

JMHO.

I haven't been on here that long, but I was injured and had a lot of time. So I read around, and read old threads. I would guess that on here ... around November 10th the boards will look like there hadn't been an election in decades.

"Fights" and animosities on here today will be forgotten long before the conventions.

That's just my guess.

My back is pretty much better, so I imagine I will be long gone from here myself before all that happens.

But in the meantime it was great entertainment!

Take care.

Short of a major blunder on the McCain side or a coupe on the Obama side, we are now headed for a McCain victory. Sit back and tell yourself that Obama is wonderful and you will loose.

You've yet to ask me why I'm writing in a protest vote. You jumped to a conclusion. Major negotiating error. I hope you aren't in business. Anyway, my protest vote is against Dean. Dean needs to go. He's made so many errors in this primary that it's ridiculous.

Boy, you must really want Obama to loose with aspersions about my ego. I ask you again. Do you want to be right or happy?!

No Ellen - YOU need to keep dreaming.

If you think your vote is a protest of Dean then you're the one in a delusion. Not me.

I'm not negotiating with you.

I could care less who you vote for.

Negotiations are like tug of war. I've put down the rope. It just isn't in my hands and I"m not playing.

Tug all you want.

THAT is the first part of negotiation - make sure the other person is playing.

I know exactly where my state electors are going and I'm happy with it.

Dean is paying attention hun. Because people like me and many of my friends have also cut off our purse strings.

She's lost 10% of her viewship since Super Tuesday. That's a hell of an indicator. So, ignore reality if you wish.

differnetEllen:

Short of a major blunder on the McCain side or a coupe on the Obama side, we are now headed for a McCain victory. Sit back and tell yourself that Obama is wonderful and you will loose.

You've yet to ask me why I'm writing in a protest vote. You jumped to a conclusion. Major negotiating error. I hope you aren't in business. Anyway, my protest vote is against Dean. Dean needs to go. He's made so many errors in this primary that it's ridiculous.

Boy, you must really want Obama to loose with aspersions about my ego. I ask you again. Do you want to be right or happy?!

The typical Hillary nutcase. So, people ask why the resistance--it's seen above.

....and....I don't expect a "coupe" from Obama--he strikes me as a sedan man ;)

HEY! I have an idea, Ellen--vote for whomeverTF you please!