"I usually loose the popular vote because you guys usually end up fearing something or buy what the mass media tells you how to think."

"You're the one using these deaths in support of an argument, not me, and you're doing it again?"

>>Well, since his argument is that H1N1 poses a serious health risk and can in fact result in loss of life , isn't it entirely reasonable he cite these deaths resulting from H1N1 as support?

"The purpose of vaccines isn't to prevent death but to prevent bad health."

>>Just because you're dying of influenza doesn't mean you suffer from bad health, after all.

What's so dumb about it? The media is known to over hype things all the time?

">>Well, since his argument is that H1N1 poses a serious health risk and can in fact result in loss of life , isn't it entirely reasonable he cite these deaths resulting from H1N1 as support?"

Yes it's entirely reasonable in as far as the fact that deaths are always tragic. However it entirely suffers from the logical fallacy of appeal to emotion. That's the point. I'm certainly not trying to diminish this as entirely important. I just don't think it's as important as people are thinking, running over each other in a riot stampede.

">>Just because you're dying of influenza doesn't mean you suffer from bad health, after all."

What's so dumb about my statement? You guy have the wrong mindset. Vaccines should merely prevent bad health, whether its crippling like polio, or you just get sick from the flu. And...you should get one if it gives you autoimmune diseases and some other long term side effect (just go with that as a hypothetic here, save it for when we debate in a month or two after I do some occasional reading in my spare time). You shouldn't get vaccinated because someone promises you'll die unless you get the antidote. That's the truly stupid way to think.

But thx for pointing how stupid I am. You know, if you're gonna do that attack thing, you really ought to do it with more expressive, emotional gusto and bravado. I'm not sure its very affective when you don't put any emotion behind it. It's like a robot saying in a monotone: "y-o-u s-u-c-k". At least have more fun with it and call me idiot or something? That's why I so much fun with Lumpy. I don't know why but he cracks me up every time he titles something "you're an idiot". There's a lesson to be learned there for ya you know.

;)

You might consider it a clue. When a regular group of educated, smart and involved people offer you concrete evidence - over, and over, and over, and over again - it could be considered a hint. It's really nothing personal; how could it be? It's merely a reflection on your fixation on railing against good common sense and well-documented facts. Not brain science. And yes, if the smartest scientists think something is true, I am likely to believe them. If that makes me shallow, so be it.

"You might consider it a clue."

Do you ever notice how you whip out that card in defense of another? And you ever notice how you blindly believe to the contrary 100%?

"When a regular group of educated, smart and involved people offer you concrete evidence - over, and over, and over, and over again - it could be considered a hint."

What concrete evidence? I've seen nothing but hearsay? And to the contrary, I'm the only one offering evidence, over and over and over again. The onus is on you guys, not me. Wise up.

"It's really nothing personal; how could it be?"

Haven't taken it as such.

"It's merely a reflection on your fixation on railing against good common sense and well-documented facts."

I've stated the well-documented facts. And i've appealed to good common sense. If you mean the only sense if your own, well...and that the facts reflect your own believe...well, I'm certainly convinced! You know what's even more lame though? When you constantly quid pro quo other alias'.

"Not brain science. And yes, if the smartest scientists think something is true, I am likely to believe them. If that makes me shallow, so be it."

But that's the problem. Smartest scientists also give contrary views. Science is never one-sided, if it is you're on the wrong side and won't progress anywhere! If the smartest scientists took a poll and determined that pink was the most favorite color, that does mean you're new favorite color is pink like an complete idi-, ahem, I mean lovely but mistaken lady? Appeal to emotion and popularity are some of the worst logical fallacies you can make, you keep making it over and over and over again. *whoosh, right over her head*

You know what's also lame, all you seem to know how to do is attack the other person instead of the message. It's like you're constantly trying to lobotomize me by constant nagging to side the the popular side. No offense, but I don't need your group mind to think for me. I really just don't want to run with your lemmings over the deep end because of some fear you might have concerning the media over-hype. It's this sort of s*it that makes economies worse. Fear magnifies the stampede effect. Feed the fear if you want though; feed the beast; it serves your life well! Give it meaning, let fear rule your life! Run and way like a chicken with your head cut of too! What's truly ironic is that you guys chide me about wearing tin foil - out of fear.

Seems to me you're the ones running scared with tin foil on your heads. Some of you boast not to be religious, and yet, here you are more superstitious that the most devout theist! Get your vaccine-antidote then out of fear, because you're gonna die without it! Argh!!! Run for the hills!! It's serious!!! Anyone that doesn't act like us is stupid and lacks common sense! Argh! *starts thumping chest like a guerilla, and beats the ground with a stick, screams like a guerilla*

But thx for pointing how stupid I am. You know, if you're gonna do that attack thing, you really ought to do it with more expressive, emotional gusto and bravado. I'm not sure its very affective when you don't put any emotion behind it.

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I think JGC's style is very effective (but then, u knew I liked his style :)).

Nothing is so infuriating as a calm opponent who refuses to be drawn into a slanging match...someone who can imply you are an idiot with typing it out in all caps. And

But please don't let that damp YOUR style, Patrick. After all, someone around here has to provide the burlesque entertainment :)

If the smartest scientists took a poll and determined that pink was the most favorite color, that does mean you're new favorite color is pink like an complete idi-, ahem, I mean lovely but mistaken lady?

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Silly analogy, Patrick. If smartest scientists took a poll and found pink was the most favorite color, that wouldn't disallow Freedom lady from having lime green as HER favorite color.

But it would be more than a bit stupid for her to start denying that scientific evidence found pink was the majority's favorite color, just because she PERSONALLY didn't like the color.

"Silly analogy, Patrick."

That was the point.

"If smartest scientists took a poll and found pink was the most favorite color, that wouldn't disallow Freedom lady from having lime green as HER favorite color."

How do you know? You F_L or something? Anyways, she said one should always side with the smartest scientists. I simply suggested that was silly. Truth doesn't care if the smartest scientists favor X or not. Truth is truth whether scientists agree or not.

"But it would be more than a bit stupid for her to start denying that scientific evidence found pink was the majority's favorite color, just because she PERSONALLY didn't like the color."

You're focused too much on pink as an object lesson. Just get off the damn pink thing and zoom out a little to see the argument better. We aren't concerned with that hypothetical. She said she's always on the side of the winning scientists. I said if they determined X was Y in terms of truth, is there like a law of the universe that forced her to agree no matter what?

Or here's one for ya. If you lived in Germany and Nazi scientists determined jews suck, are you gonna go out and start shooting them? Capice? Siding with the smartest scientists ALWAYS just demonstrates a weakness on your part.

"I think JGC's style is very effective (but then, u knew I liked his style :))."

Do you scream his name and cry like the Michael Jackson fan club does? You're funny.

;)

"Nothing is so infuriating as a calm opponent who refuses to be drawn into a slanging match...someone who can imply you are an idiot with typing it out in all caps."

No infuriating at all. That was never the point. I just wanted a little more human approach is all. In this you remind me hens who purposely go out of their way to get two cocks to fight. Don't pretend to be a peaceful creature in this regard in bringing it up.

"But please don't let that damp YOUR style, Patrick."

What style? Lol. I don't want a "style". Styles are for the weak, those who need to stroke egos. That's not my style by the way, don't let it fool you (lol! I'm digging my own hole, great!, the point still um - sort of? - stands). (Ah ha! Don't place over important on style, elevating it above simple argument techniques. It's a appeal is a logical fallacy after all. There ya go. Ha! *digs back out*)

"After all, someone around here has to provide the burlesque entertainment :)"

And that would be me because the rest of you are such a boring drag? K-G! How insulting to the rest of them! I'm shocked!

You're claiming H1N1 is no big deal--you do it again in the post I'm replying to, and he's simply pointing out that it's killing people.