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As for 'now',
by Zeus-Boy
Get me outta here.
How is doing good
by Zeus-Boy
It's own reward?
Think extrinsic vs. intrinsic.
by TenaciousK
Now I really do have to go see the fucking dentist. Extrinsic or intrinsic, positive or negative reinforcement, I anticipate it will be quite rewarding, and do much to facilitate my appreciation of those things that make life worthwhile.
That gives me the greatest idea!
by Fritz Gerlich

Develop & market a cigar brand named "Old Souls". The advertising slogan will be, "You'll know an Old Soul when you meet one." For too long cigars have settled for virility and affluence as their product attributes. Time for them to break into wisdom and spirituality.

I love ya', man.
by TenaciousK

I'll think about you, as the dentist drill is whining away, and hope for some relief (for you, too).

Me too.
by Zeus-Boy
So it's all just one empty coping mechanism?
Re: Old Soles?
by Zeus-Boy
When they depart from the body it's time to buy a new pair.
Maybe more than coping.
by Isonomist
It's a species-wide survival strategy. From chance is born a being with consciousness of self and community, prone to act in ways that further the survival of the group. If belief in an afterlife/God arises within that framework, it's coopted into the survival strategy, in evolution's amoral acquisitive serendipity.
Re: But, rewards?
by Schadenfreude
That's why God created orgasms.
hair of the dog, as they say.
by Isonomist
I'm still here, on the off chance something will come up.
Ashes to ashes
by ducadmo
you are what you urn.
I believe death . . .
by thelyamhound

. . . is the absolute end of something. In Buddhist thought, the "self" is little more than a collection of desires and tendencies. There's debate, depending of the school of Buddhist thought and the degree of literalism in interpreting various sutras, as to whether this collection transcends the body or is dependent on it. To the best of my capacity to guess, I'd say that it's dependent on a molecular level, transcendent to the organic one. That is to say, there isn't necessarily a "soul" separate from the body so much as there is cellular "memory" that can continue after the body is no longer alive.

So on the physical level, there are aspects of the "self" that can't be measured that are imprinted on the matter of the body as it decomposes and dissipates. Therefore, the scattering of ashes has real as well as symbolic significance; on the flipside, ancient traditions wherein one is sealed with one's possessions and servants probably ALSO served the purpose of keeping these aspects of self tied intimately to ones belongings and culture. It's certainly part of why I'd like to get a "green" burial--no embalming, no sealed casket, a lowering into the earth by the hands of loved ones. It seems the purest way to make sure my various particles, so far as they contain any imprint of me, become part of what Bruno called the "eternal corporeal," the ongoing manifestation of the eternal incorporeal--of "God." Bruno was more a panpsychic or a panentheist than a materialist/pantheist, but much in his vocabulary is useful.

I think there are aspects of the mind and personality that can carry on in memory, in works, in the change one has wrought in life. But beyond that, and beyond whatever mark of experience we leave, through our physical body, to the earth itself, I'm not sure I believe that there is a transcendent, individual soul, separate from the body. If I had to make a posit, I'd suggest that there's a universal soul, of which any individual is a temporary, subjective expression, an emergent function of the universes emergent consciousness (or capacity for consciousness).

And there are no ghosts either, no poltergeists, spirits, fairies, goblins, paranormalities, no presences of any kind that don't have an organic explanation.

Oh, I wouldn't say that. I think of ghosts and the like as a sort of subatomic imprint, a cellular "memory" of events and personalities. Goblins and faeries, if such things are about, speak more to our facile notions of what kinds of life might exist--what elements truly govern being, the limitations of our petty taxonomies, etc. To gnostic alchemists like John Dee, for instance, magic and the occult was mere science, an attempt to break existence down into its fibres.

You seem to express a discomfort I've heard a lot, regarding the similarity of fate for the evil and monstrous in the world and the good or minimally harmful. I'm disinclined to think that the fates for both are really so similar; insofar as a "self" exists in the cells post-mortem, or in the ideas as they live on, the Hitlers and Mussolini's of the world have found neither rest nor vindication. The trouble is, once you posit a notion so facile as heaven and hell, you aren't really in any position to separate the beastly from the common sinner; to the Lutheran or the Calvinist, say, anyone who doesn't truly believe in the resurrection is fucked, while to the works-based (or sin-avoidance-obsessed) theology, chronic maturbator, say, is as bound for hell as the genocidal maniac. Of course, whether we see that as "fair" or not is moot if any of these theological presuppositions are actually true, but that's where we get into evidence.

Is there evidence of spirit, of transcendence? Well, not conclusive evidence, but I'd say, on balance, yes. That is to say, there are evidences that being is not entirely explained by our empirical sciences. But there are also evidences that call into question any one explanation of the nature of that transcendence, particularly any of those that suggest an anthropomorphic god, self-evident moral truths, etc. The only axioms I accept are that one should be wary of axioms and that one should be willing to accept paradox (which allows me to accept the first axiom).

Fun discussion. I'd be interested to hear what it is you're looking for.

Is that a real poncho ...
by watt4bob
... or is that a Sears poncho?
I used to think of myself . . .
by thelyamhound

. . . as an old soul. The more I live with myself, the younger I imagine my soul to be. Too restless . . . or, more to the point, restive, to be credited with too much maturity. I try not place a negative value judgment on it, but contrary to popular belief (which I fear I've fostered) about me on this forum, I tend to skew toward cruel self-criticism.

I think I've known and met some old souls. I'm not sure what that implies about the "soul," its relation to the body and to eternity, the degree to which it does or doesn't contain "self."

Green Day song sums it up perfectly.
by PumpkinSeed

"So take the photographs, and still frames in your mind
Hang it on a shelf in good health and good time
Tattoos of memories and dead skin on trial
For what it's worth it was worth all the while

It's something unpredictable, but in the end it's right.
I hope you had the time of your life."

or more succinctly:

"Its a Beautiful Day, don't let it get away."

Make the best of the time you have.

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