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Re: Are we perhaps overreacting a bit?
by EarlyBird

"'Tweens" are pre-pubescent.

And just because something is natural does not mean it needs to be expressed. Sorry for sounding like such a Puritan here, but let's think about it. There are plenty of things which are natural, for instance, striking out at someone who bothers us, or taking something we want. These are all natural urges. But we restrain them because we don't want to live in a society where we steal from each other and hit each other, and when that natural urge is expressed we punish it. We practice self control.

All this in the name of civilization.

Re: Are we perhaps overreacting a bit?
by guamania

You can't really be suggesting that it's ok for a twelve year old's parents--and for the fashion marketing industry--to encourage her to spend her mental and emotional energy 'attracting a mate' via dressing in such a way as to demonstrate a shallow, needy self-image and zero self-respect.

Friend, my three young daughters spend their time and energy developing healthy minds, bodies and spirits so when they are actual ADULTS and reach an APPROPRIATE age to begin 'attracting a mate,' they will attract the kind of men who value them for the content of their character (to borrow a phrase) while still appreciating their outer beauty. Which, mind you, is rooted in their strength, health and individuality, not in how much time they spend shopping and applying makeup.

We have a choice in which message to send to the girls in our society:

Yes, playing with presentation and image can be fun and creative, but it's ultimately shallow, and the gift to the world that you represent is what's inside of you, not what's outside. People will generally accord you as much respect as you demonstrate that you accord yourself.

Or we can tell them that they should be interested in and dedicated to attracting and pleasing the kind of people who don't give a shit about anything besides sexual gratification.

Frankly, it sickens me that there are adults out there who value girls so little that they think it's just fine to tell them that their value lies in being sexual objects. I became a feminist when I became aware of the injustice to the human dignity of women to define them solely as sexual objects; I never dreamed that someday we'd even have to make the argument that *little girls* should be allowed an existence in which they are free of sexual connotation.

Re: Not Really
by AnikaG

This is not meant as a sob story.

However, I want to stress the most important point in this entire narrative - that parents who try to stamp out their daughters' early sexual expressions because they (the parents) find them inappropriate or uncomfortable also do their children a disservice.

At the risk of getting too personal (not much of a risk in an online forum, really!) I was definitely the child of such parents. I never believed that my body was "dirty" or any such nonsense, and for that I'm grateful. But I know that I invested (and still do invest, sadly) far too much time and energy in hating my own sexuality as a result.

I come from a very conservative culture where women are supposed to have little to no sexual feelings prior to age 18 (and it's true that for most women in traditional societies this age limit might have seemed appropriate). When I decided ate age 13 that I wanted to start shaving my legs, I felt so guilty for my shallowness that instead, I took to wearing long pants. To play tennis. For three hours a day. In the middle of 90 degree summer heat. I can't tell you how many times I had to excuse myself because I was feeling light-headed and heatstruck, and when my mother finally blackmailed me into explaining the problem, she reacted as I expected she would. With shock and horror, with the protestation that I was "too young for those kinds of concerns," with the assertion that she herself hadn't done it until after college. Mind you, most of my friends already did.

The first time I bought a bra that wasn't white - high school, mind you - I hid it in the back of my closet so my mother would never find it. The list goes on, but I've made my point.

I was always told that girls who indulged their sexuality were gross and incorrect in the extreme, that they were shallow, and they would come to a bad (ie, Paris Hilton-type) end. Even now, when I dress fairly modestly, a man whistling at me on the street can make me feel ashamed, as if I've done something wrong. Even now, if I'm attracted to a boy, I feel as if I'm being shallow. Even now, if I catch myself worrying about how I look, I try to remember that there are people dying in fires in Greece and bomb blasts in India, and these unfortunate folks are far more worthy of my consideration. In other words, I feel as if worrying about sex is somehow beneath me, and I have a lot of trouble communicating what I want as a result.

Having said all this, I want to add that in every other regard I'm exactly like Palabra. I love my life, I've had incredible opportunities, I've had loads of professional success. I led my high school in most categories, I volunteered abroad for months at a time, I speak multiple languages. My personal life isn't what I wish it were, but nothing is perfect. I also know that in five years I'll probably be fine.

But once in a while, I read an account like Palabra's and I realize that there is another way to raise children. To nurture their minds without condemning their bodies. And that some parents (and I love my parents, I really do; I would do anything for them) manage it. For any parent, it's worth remembering that biology has changed, that kids aren't to blame for that, that we live in a sex-drenched culture where women nonetheless have more professional and academic opportunities than they ever had in the past. And we haven't dropped the ball - we vote, we attend great colleges, we buy homes and make sound decisions.

A parent's job is to set boundaries, but those boundaries should be defined by an understanding of the child as a person, and not by the parents' squeamishness, religious inclinations, or history of personal development.

nature isn't doing this
by athena13
it's the UNnatural hormones etc... that are being added to our food supplies. why in a time when women are typically having children LATER would nature make girls more sexually viable earlier?
i think you're reading too much into this
by athena13

and note that in yoffe's article, she mentions that these are not just her tastes that she can't find clothes to fit, but her daughter's. you could argue that she brainwashed her child, but i would wager that an 11 year old intelligent enough to reference harriet meiers has at least a little bit of an ability to have her own thoughts.

for the record, i was very uncomfortable going through puberty. it had nothing to do with anyone trying to make me feel ashamed of myself. and i wasn't ashamed. i just thought that breasts got in the way and that menses were gross, etc.... not so shocking for a 13 year old to feel such things, although i know that a lot of my friends did not feel the same.

point is, just because you were so happy in your sexuality and impending pubescence, don't assume that everyone else is. i didnt want to grow up and if i was forced to wear some of the things these girls wear nowadays, i dont think i would have felt comfortable. not to mention that's when i went through my 6 year awkward phase where my body was completely unproportioned. by giving tweens "adult" clothing, aren't we also encouraging them to want to have an "adult" figure, which just cause you have hips and boobs doesn't mean you look all put together yet. isn't that possibly a cause for bad body image and self esteem? tween girls should not be comparing themselves to adults and what they look like. i mean, i didnt get the shape i have now as an adult until i turned eighteen.

i agree that strong parenting is most important, but dont go the other extreme and think that everyone growing up felt like you. we should allow for differences between tweens, and it would be nice if the manufacturers did too!

Re: Are we perhaps overreacting a bit?
by Natalie

Every girl/woman knows how clothes make you feel when you put them on (any psychologist can tell you as well!). You feel good when you look good. You FEEL quite sexy when you know you look sexy and teenage girls do not need to feel sexy and attract that kind of attention. Girls like to feel pretty, beautiful, and attractive, not an object of lust. Secondly, I think it's pretty disgusting that "Palabra" thinks girls should be looking sexy and essentially embrace sex. Most girls have absolutely no idea of how differently boys and girls view sex and boys are almost always trying to take advantage of them for their own personal pleasure. A young girl does not have the sense and good judgement to make sexual choices. They tend to be very naiive and can therefore be relatively easily taken advantage of and have to live with life-long regrets. To promote sexy clothes on girls is to promote promescuity (and so also promoting teen pregnancies/disease) as well as encouraging and tempting pedaphiles. I don't think anyone with a sound mind wants to do that.

Re: Are we perhaps overreacting a bit?
by beth12164

Our Tweens are no doubt being forced to deal with puberty at a younger age- the average age for onset of menstration is now 12. But must they also be forced to make decisions about how to market themselves without choices? Many young women do not want to dress as cute little girls or sexy teens, and yet there seems no choice other than these two.

Another important factor is that just because their bodies are maturing sooner, their brains are not. Young women who send out the message that they are sexual beings- may want to send that message, but they are not cognitively equiped to make the best decissions. The exectutive function of the brain does not mature until early 20's. We explained to our daughter that it's not that we don't trust her- it's that we don't want her to be disctracted at school by having to explain to boys that look does not mean touch.

Like many young girls who would/could wear provocative clothing of much older girls- our daughter certainly looked older with the "right" apparel- but she was not equiped emotionally or developmentally to deal with the interest it generated.

Re: Are we perhaps overreacting a bit?
by VegasGirl

Wow - I can't believe what I'm reading! It is apparent that you do not have any kids, specifically not a tween girl. Well, I am a parent of a tween girl, and I would rather her go to school in a potato sack than let her wear thongs, padded bras, or other hypersexualized clothing. Puberty is not starting earlier because girls are becoming sexual beings earlier - that's ridiculous!

Clothing like this sends a wrong message to girls...not to mention to pedophiles. A woman can wear what she wants - but don't fool yourself, a woman is judged by the clothes she wears. And even if you're not, if you dress like a tramp you get treated like a tramp!

Re: Not Really
by beth12164

I would never advocate telling or even suggesting to a young woman that there is anything wrong with her body. Rather I would encourage her, as we have our daughter, to take pride in all her traits and to treat herself as the valuable individual we see her as. She has been taught that there is nothing wrong with the human body, or with sexuality- but just as her father and I restrict our sexual activities to private times- so should she. School is for learning and not for sex play- she needs to dress the part. It's a shame that school clothes can't be comfortable- both physically and emotionally.

Our son has an interesting perspective too- he observes that he would be uncomfortable having his friends and other guys look at his sister if she wore some of the sexy clothes. But even more disturbing is that he observes how hard it is for him to focus in school when girls in his class dress provocatively.

Re: Are we perhaps overreacting a bit?
by Letha

The problem is not always puberty. A child of 11 or 12 doesn't necesarily know that she is attracting unwanted attention from a boy who may be 16 or 17. This could lead to disastorous results and a long road to recovery.

On another level when girls want to fit in and end up wearing this clothing and hanging out with the in crowd it can also mean being put in sexual situations they aren't ready for. How many of you remember that Oprah episode where she had to explain to a group of girls that oral sex was actually a form of sex?

Re: Are we perhaps overreacting a bit?
by ordinary1

Just because they are hitting puberty early doesn't mean that we can allow them to starts dressing provacitive. As a parent, you should want to protect your child's innocense. You should still allow them to be expressive and individuals but with limits at first and as they become older loosen up on the restrictions and hope that you raised aan expressive and independent young adult.

Re: Are we perhaps overreacting a bit?
by JP in Colorado
Girls may be physically maturing earlier, but that doesn't mean that mentally, emotionally and intellectually they are ready to get into boy/girl relationships. Why can't we allow children to be children and stop pushing them into more than they can handle? They shouldn't have to worry about all that yet. Modesty has a role in maturity also. And yes, dear - sex is great - for those who are old enough and responsible enough and protected. I think "tweens" aren't there yet and certainly don't need to be there yet. Give these kids a break!
Re: Are we perhaps overreacting a bit?
by sarahcsmile

"When a girl begins puberty, it is perfectly natural for her to begin to think of attracting a mate and to dress and act accordingly."

I'm sorry, how old did you say your children are?

And this remark goes right along with it. Attracting a mate at 11...are you out of your mind.

Just because we have chemically poisoned our food source to the point of damaging our biological growth and development doesn't mean that our prepubescent children are ready for "mating". This may have been the fact when the average life span was 38, but certainly not now.

I have an 8 y/o and am appalled when I see the built in padded shelf bras and bikini bathing suits on the racks for her age group. Sex offenders are far more brazen these days. They may have always been there, but now they openly declare their sick sexual attraction to children. Maybe this too is a sign of the times.

My daughter also has a sense when certain clothing is "just not right". She won't have anything to do with writing on the bottom side of her sweats and insists on wearing bicycle type shorts under skirts or dresses when she knows she will be playing on the swing set and there is risk of her underpants showing. She has a healthy level of modesty (thank goodness).These kids are just starting to develop a sense of themselves, not their sexuality. Being pressured into wearing seductive clothing by their peers all because the manufacturers are basing their clothing lines on undernourished, hypersexual starlets is ludicrous.

There are so many other outletts for expression which are far healthier and less pressuring than having to feel uncomfortable with the clothing they wear.

Re: Not Really
by usafgirl1994

I truly appreciate your view and I can see that you have put a great deal of thought into it; however, I can not agree with all of it. Personally, I also lament the fashion industry's lack of tasteful clothing for young girls, and my daughter is only 6. I certainly do not blame the fashion industry or the entertainment industry for sexualizing our young ladies at what seems a younger age every year. It is our responsibilty as parents to teach our children, boys and girls, about what is going on with their bodies and the urges it may cause, and the response it can get. I also believe it is our responsibility as parents to allow our children to explore and learn about becoming adults in a responsible and controlled environment. Now, before anyone goes ballistic, I am NOT suggesting we should allow children to have sex. I am only suggesting that as they get older and show responsibility in their actions that we allow them more adult-like choices. What they wear can be a very good way to teach them how to make good choices and to explain the consequences of making those choices.

What most young girls do not understand is the responses and attention they receive when they dress in a provocative manner. Nor do they understand the potential ramifications of it. While they may want to appear "sexy" because that is the cool thing to do (I do not believe dressing like this is their response to their new-found pubescent bodies) they do not wish to be labeled and are often hurt when they inevitably are. They also do not have the maturity to handle the responses from the opposite sex. Perhaps this is why so many people do not wish their young "tween" daughters to dress like 21 year-old club-hoppers.

The problem arises because many parents allow their girls to dress in these provocative styles without explaining what sexuality is and what is going on in their bodies. They fail to explain the environment that girls create around themselves when they dress older than they are. The girls then end up confused, hurt, and dressing that way for the wrong reasons.

I, for one, plan on shopping with my daughter and monitoring her choices. I truly believe a young lady can still attract young gentlemen without dressing like a slut, retaining her dignity and self-respect and still look stylish and classy. Some of the new styles are cute and acceptable but most are way over the top and completely inappropriate for a school-room setting. I think the writer of the article, and many people responsing to it just wish there were choices for people who wish to teach their children that clothing choices should be appropriate for the occasion. That is what I intend to teach my daughter about clothing and self-esteem because I believe it still gives her a way to express herself without exposing herself, and builds a solid foundation for the road to adulthood. She will understand that there are appropriate clothing choices for different occasions and that very rarely is racy clothing going to do anything other than attract unsavory attention. Ten-to-one that a young lady just out of college attending an interview in a sharp, clean and attractive business suit is more likely to be hired than a young lady dressed in a short skirt and revealing top with her bra straps and thong on display.

Re: Not Really
by Chantal

Paris Hilton and Nicole Ritchey are heros to young girls? That's really a good one. If you'd listen in on conversations girls have about them, then you'd know. Every girl knows Paris Hilton is a joke, Nicole Ritchey is a slut, and Britney Spears is just sad and somewhat of a drunkard now.

Paris Hilton's way of dress didn't earn her fame and fortune, her parents and grandparents got her that with the Hotels they own.

Here's a suggestion, talk to your kids, ladies. It's not that hard. Before you assume that your child plans on being a prostitute, why not ask them?

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