I do think this is an informative thread. So thank you all for your honesty.

I blog a lot, and often, and all over the place.

But I keep seeing this funky argument all over.

Obama supporter: "The SKY is blue!"

Clinton supporter:"The WATER is green!"

Obama supporter:" Ok, you're not getting it. I said, the SKY is BLUE."

Clinton supporter:"And I said the WATER is GREEN, you jerk!"

Obama supporter:"What in the Hell is WRONG with you people that you cannot seem to grasp the SIMPLE fact that the SKY IS BLUE."

Clinton supporter:" No one in their right mind CARES if the Stupid SKY is blue..as if you could tell anyway..EVERY NORMAL, HARDWORKING, REAL AMERICAN knows that the fact that WATER IS GREEN IS FAR MORE IMPORTANT you f-ing elitist."

ETC. Ad Nauseum (which means until we're all flippin sick of hearing it.)

I assume that people on both sides can see the futility of all of this.

The problem is that NO ONE on either side is bothering to explain why they care more about the water color than the sky color, or vice versa.

We all seem to be too busy defending our beliefs to bother explaining to someone else why we hold those beliefs or why they are important to us.

But the only way for me to understand and care about your issues, or for you to understand and care about mine, is for us to understand them together.

And any attempt to explain, BY EITHER SIDE, is greeted as condescending.And any questioning from the other side is greeted as confrontational. And all responses then end up defensive.

We really do all have to calm down (and I can see that that's happening on this thread ) take a breath, and maybe accept that this won't be the easiest conversation, but that it IS necessary.

And welcome Clinton supporters, this is one Obama supporter that's DAMN glad to see ya.

And if you'd like a bit of specific clarification of what Senator Obama meant by "CHANGE Washington", and a great reason to share in the HOPE we Obama supporters have...

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"eric2500be"

"Meghan O'Rourke is clearly channeling the supporters of Adlai Stevenson when she writes:

"She animated the cultish, irrational mob impulse in her supporters."

If you want to understand why a sizeable number of Clinton supporters will not vote for Obama, all you have to do is read this obnoxious screed. Characterizing the other candidate's supporters as "cultish" and subject to an "irrational mob impulse" is not my idea of the best way to actually win over votes you desperately need if you're to have any hope of winning the general election."

So what is new?

"prescient article on George Orwell and why British Socialism never took off with working men and women in Britain. As one of the few Clinton supporters who can actually read, I'll precis it for you: the British working class did not reject socialism because they had a problem with the tenets of socialism, but rather, they rejected socialism because they could not stand British socialists themselves."

Thats like the USA. We did not reject socialism and progressive liberalism when they turned to Reagan and the Republicans. They were trying to reject Feminism & its homosexual allies, which had turned on and begun to prey on the rest of the democratic party, the working class and the progressive white male heterosexuals, dividing the party.

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They found the average British socialist to be an officious, arrogant snob who looked down on them.

Very Much like the Yuppies once they were past draft age!

"As Obama supporters are "the best and the brightest" surely you must be able to see that. I believe Shaw made the same point in a different context in the preface to "Saint Joan." Typically, people don't like to hear themselves mocked as racists, dummies, or both."

This has become SOP, for all opponents. In fact the media is full of constant overt/covert misandry & misogny, insults to someone, in shows, commercials, in special station messages, most often demeaning heterosexual working class white guys, I suppose because they are a powerless minority.

See I'm one of those rural Americans and Obama frankly scares the shit out of me. I not asking to be included and worried about being left out. I want the government out of my face and letting me take care of my own problems. I certainly don't need you or anyone else telling me how to live my life.

As for Obama not saying these things, well you better do your research. The most pointed statement from his mouth was and this is not exact but you can google this and figure it for yourself was something to the effect of "the bitter white man clinging to his guns and religion".

Actually what he said was that a lot of working class people have been repeatedly lied to by politicians of both parties and not seen any improvement in their lives in decades. Therefore, they are not particularly open to a message of hope and change and tend to cling to things such as guns, religion etc. If you look at what he said its pretty clear that the things people cling to may be good or bad.

Also, if you want the government out of your face, then i assume you want a dem in the white house, because its the reps that have been violating your privacy and pushing their own morality into your private life.

describing Obama's supporters, to a T !! I have to laugh, watching them portray themselves as SO intellectual, SO enlightened & above it all, when what they really are, are the most irrational, scarily dedicated (read "cultish") FOLLOWERS & Kool-Aid drinkers, now on the planet, outside of North Korea.

Loved your post, loved your tone, loved your analysis but best of all, I loved this: "As one of the few Clinton supporters who can actually read."

FABulous, and thanks. A little wit goes a long way. And yes, we are just THAT stupid, aren't we? Those of us who will still refuse to vote for His Hopeness and will, instead, write in Senator Clinton's name.

and as such, obnoxiously elitist and above it all. Just TRY reading some of her poetry, some time, or her crits of poetry by others. And good luck to you! You are quite right that reading some of BObama's "supporters" on Slate is enough to turn any good, loyal DEM. into an abstainer, a one-time McCain voter or in my case, someone who is going to write in Hillary's name on the top line in November. What is even more annoying than O'Rourke's petty intellectual snobbery is the infuriating FACT of the anti-woman / female position that she & several of the XX-Factor "feminists" have taken. Picking a guy who is in so many ways behind the colorS of his skin, actually not much more than just another guy OVER the first female candidate who had a real chance at being elected POTUS ... tells me all I need to know about these spoiled brat, Gen X "women" writers.

Meghan O'Rourke has never had what most people would consider a "real" job (Look her up on GOOGLE, for the specifics) and it very clearly shows in her writing. So does her age. (Mid to late 20s, my guess)

Except that a lot of turned-off Hillary voters are just sick & tired of being insulted by these Professional Intellectuals like O'Rourke & 95% of the Slate writers & 115% of the Fray pro-Obama posters. I don't see a lot of them showing up for "team tryouts" or turning back "home" to the Dems in Nov. myself -- at least not at the top of the ticket. Obama blew it badly -- letting his native elitism show. And imho, the wife is worse, far FAR worse. O'Rourke is a snob, of the worst kind -- a New Yorker AND a professional poet to boot! What more proof do we need? :-)