WOW! So much tension here. Let's see if I can set about answering the original challenge.

I think women and men are very similar in their reasons for cheating but I don't think asking why women cheat is the right question. I think asking why women cheat when they have so much more to lose is a better question!

So before everyone jumps on my back...I am not blaming men!

However, no matter how far we've come as humans we still live, for the most part, in a patriarchal society so ignoring that men are simply more privileged in most of the things they do (For good and for evil) is a bit naive. The cheating field is not level and will probably never be so in most of out lifetimes so let's just get over that aspect of this eternal battle and please move on....for the moment...

Why is a woman willing to risk losing the respect of both men and women? And just as importantly, why is their still a double standard when it comes to this issue? You'd think being labeled a slut and having people whisper about you behind your back would be enough to stop any woman from even contemplating an extramarital affair and yet it seems more women are willing to talk about it. I say more are willing to talk about it because I refuse to believe that woman haven't been cheating for as long as men have, I just believe the consequences are more dire for them.

Anyway, I know I'm rambling a bit but basically I think there is no real difference in level of desire, availability of partners or what ever else. I think the deciding factor for a woman is whether or not she feels she can get away with it and if she gets caught, is she willing to accept the consequences of he actions. In our American society (And in several others) the consequences for men are just not as serious.

And again, before you jump down my throat...

Yes men lose their families, become part time fathers and they also lose their money in angry divorce settlements and yes they are even publicly humiliated on YouTube by hysterical ex-wives! But I ask you to think about this, when was the last time you heard a group of men sitting around discussing what a slut "Bob" is for sleeping with skanks A, B, and maybe C and how he should be so ashamed and my god what sort of example is he setting for little Billy and the next time we see him at the market we should just avoid him because talking to him would just lend credence to his bad behavior and blah blah freakin' blah! Yep, never happens! If anything the men sit around praising "Bob" for having the guts to go through with it and secretly or not so secretly, wishing they had the guts too.

Men + Cheating = Admiration and faux condemnation

Women + Cheating = Exclusion and repudiation

Okay so let me have it dear Fray posters!

I don't think men get that treatment any more.

Mostly they are viewed as either a scumbag or stupid.

In both cases (men and women) they are cut slack if their spouse is publicly viewed as a "bad spouse" or a "sexless spouse" because then you can understand. In both cases, they are cut less slack if kids are involved.

A woman that really likes sex a lot can't be satisfied by one man ultimately tho.

bigbuck623:

The OP isn't "normal" by any stretch of the word.

She is chaotic, and utterly incapable of handling a relationship. Now that she's found a guy who she actually could settle down with.. oh no, she can't handle that, it's time to inject chaos to destabilize it.

Who injected the chaos? She did.

Who spun miles of yarns to justify her need to run around being chaotic? She did.

What's her ultimate goal? To run around whimsically satisfying emotions, or to nurture, maintain, and grow a loving relationship? She is wholly disrespectful of her husband, even inventing a way to define it as "his" fault - as if absolving herself of blame makes infidelity either appropriate or acceptable.

The OP is human - not because she cheats, but because she needs therapy and does not recognize it. This is not an uncommon or unusual situation. What is unusual is that America (and, to an extent, Slate) would rather glorify the action of cheating instead of discussing its long-term effects.

Judging the action as good or bad isn't the point - the point is to guide suggestion and recommendation by what's ultimately good for her as a person. Cheating isn't "OK" just because it can be done.. nothing happens in a vacuum.

Cheating is to an extent sociopathic (because you are a horrible person when you know you're causing pain to someone else and don't stop) and is nothing more than re-enacting trauma from the past. What, exactly, do you think caused the labeling of random high-risk encounters as a "good" thing in your brain? That's not the case with everyone.

What's the solution for people who find a rush of adrenaline when they cheat? Stop. Look, this isn't tough - you take out the garbage every day even though you don't want to. You have to make the conscious effort every day to choose long-term gain over short-term (ultimately fleeting) glee.

Sounds like someone is projecting.

Sounds like you're projecting.

Someone who lies to the most important person in their life and betrays them in the deepest, most significant way possible is all things selfish, weak, and shitty--be they man or woman or some combination of the two. BigBuck says that there's nothing wrong with a non-monogamous relationship so long as all members of the party are aware of the details. In the case of Antiphobia, that is not the case. Why anyone would defend something so utterly selfish and potentially (read: almost definitely) destructive is beyond me. I've seen a lot of excuses in this thread and elsewhere defending the act of adultery, but the plain fact of the matter is that if you do this, if you betray your so-called partner for a few moments of fleeting, bodily pleasure, you're weak and probably more than a little bit messed up. Life's not easy, and doing the right thing is not easy because we're all so physically inclined to not, but that's the difference between good and bad people, weak and strong, selfless and selfish. You want to sleep around on your other half? Ask him or her if it's okay with them. If it's not? Break up with them and do what you gotta do. Frankly, you're already doing them a disservice by being with them while you lie constantly anyway.

Hmm...I might have been prudent not to mention my own actual infidelity as, in a sense, it's beside the point. I included the information as it seemed relevant in positioning me in the debate. I would never bother defending my choices as those who have objected to it make very valid objections. Whether or not I think monogamy is a justifiable expectation, I did enter into a relationship that contained that expectation and by not fulfilling it I am being dishonest. Still, this is beside the point of the primary debate. My intention was to define what I percieve as a manufactured imabalance of expectation which is both irrational and destructive as well as to set forth some hypothetical reasons for its existence. I wish we would not accept infidelity as aberrant behavior, and fidelity as a natural law of the universe. I think our irrationally exaggerated censure of the behavior actually makes the problem worse and the responses to this thread have done nothing to change that impression.

Agreed, Ben, though not with as much emotional appeal.

There are people who aspire to be as noble, idealistic, and strong as possible, and there are people who believe we are physically deterministic animal and will go to great pains to show that flaws are not only acceptable but "humanizing."

Both points of view have certain arguments, premises, etc. that are arguable and or fallible. I suppose the question that arises is which would you prefer to be? Personally speaking, the saving grace of humanity is that it can aspire to be greater in both act and intent than animals. Perhaps you don't believe that. It's your right not to believe that, but would you argue it's a noble one to excercise? And if you do not believe in nobility, then what precisely distinguishes you from your average animal aside from the material trappings?

Which pushes me to examine the remark "I am human." What does it mean, exactly? I suppose it means "I'm fallible," if one speculates upon the author's mindset. But its intent is almost classic in its absolute vagueness, giving it a distinctly sophistic quality. It means nothing to say I am human, unless we take it literally to mean, "I participate in the species homo sapiens."

So all we know is that she identifies what kind of organism she is, though the implications are loaded. To err is human one might say. But this particular person seeks to err. She (writes that she) enjoys it, justifies it, comes up with flawed arguments involving gender parallelism and psychological assumptive leaps, etc.

And yet she finishes with a classic waffle. "I am human." Ay, it's easy to say you are of a certain species. But what kind of human are you? After all, being a human being is hardly your choice. What kind of human being you are is your choice. Unless you believe you are governed by determinism and biology, which makes you no different from the average animal (at least from what we might scientifically know). If this seems like a one-or-the-other opposition, it is, because the concept of "partial determinism" is incoherent.

So if you believe in the former, if you believe in humans being better for being noble and strong, then you don't form a distinctly human agreement (in its reasoned origins and ideals) of monogamy and then violate it. Then, as Ben as so forcefully said, you are weak and selfish, or, for those biological determinists: a mere animal. So "I'm human" doesn't cut it. If you believe in the possibility for humans to be noble and strong, you say, "I'm an ignoble and weak human." If you don't believe in that, just say, "I'm a homo sapiens and no better than an animal, just like you." Just don't be surprised when decent people of the opposite sex seem to elude you, or when the person whom you think you are fooling turns out to also be fooling you.

One other thing - these principles don't apply to one gender over the other. Men who cheat are as indecent as the women who do. If society appears to believe it's more acceptable for men to do it than women, you still have the choice of disagreeing with society and living more nobly than the milieu that surrounds you, and you lose nothing. If you believe in principles, then you should choose to stick by them regardless of what others do. It's evasive and weak to say you believe in a set of principles but are willing to violate them since others do.

Plus, in real life, as a guy, I see so many instances of the assumed double-standard resulting in men who are either perpetually guilty or suspicious or dissatisfied. Guys who sleep around tend to be jerks and losers as a result of their habits. And, unsurprisingly, they always wind up, at some point, talking to guys like me, who stick with the principles underlying a committed relationship, and saying something along the lines of, "you know, I wish I had what you have."

Frankly, I think you are all intellectualizing a bit overmuch. If you love someone and want to be in an exclusive i.e. monogamous(meaning if you don't want them to sleep around,you don't get to either.) relationship, then do so. However if you feel that no matter who you are with, you will not be satisfied, then don't have a so-called monogamous relationship! It's not the sleeping around that's wrong, it's lying to your partner. In other words, the most important thing in any relationship is trust. If you lie, you automatically lose that trust, probably for good.

If I call someone a slut, it is because they sleep with multiple partners solely for sexual satisfaction, or simply because they can, not out of love or attraction.

As far as men go, they are usually pretty faithful in my experience. In fact, most men who cheat do so because they have been cheated on in the past. Men want to be faithful, but if they have been hurt by a partner, they seem to take it out on subsequent partners by repeating the behavior. Seems illogical, but hey these are men we are talking about here;)

All the instances of infidelity on the part of either sex that I am familiar with were part of a systematicly dysfuntional relationship. I can't say it's impossible for both partners to be completely satisfied in the relationship, and then cheat, but I've never encountered this.

This makes me believe that cheating is a lesser though more dramatic and visible element of the situation. Addressing this issue alone is like trying to fix a symptom instead of the underlying illness.

I believe people cheat because they are not getting what they need or want. And knowing what we really need and want can be the hardest thing. (Being attracted to other people is perfectly normal. Acting on this and undermining a relationship is dysfuntional).

The real question is, why are we so bad at taking care of ourselves and each other (i.e. knowing what we need and want)?

So, in other words, you rationalize your dishonesty. Your "manufactured imbalance" was self imposed and now you seem to think the reactions of others further justifies your view of exaggerated irrationality. Why not try the same logic with another dishonest act, say theft - 3 hots and a cot - with plenty of time to rationalize.

I fail to see where I was "justifying" myself.

Infidelity happens a good deal more than the common man seems to believe it does, and that's a safe niche to occupy, but if you acknowledge that it happens as frequently is does, then you may want to consider the possibility that it isn't a manifestation of dysfunction so much as it is a default biological behavior. As I said, I think our societies' extreme attitude toward that behavior contributes to the problem.

How is that not justifying it? It seems to me you're saying, "It ain't my fault I cheat--it's my default biological behavior!" Yeah, duh, the default human biological behavior is to consume and lie and cheat and fuck and steal and gossip and slander and hurt and cry and whine and belittle and judge and hate, hence all the horrors of the world and the complacency of the people who occupy it. But that doesn't justify a damned thing! You say it happens, it's human, big whoop. True! It does happen, it is human. Congratulations--pat yourself on the back for your bravery! The bravery of anonymously admitting on a political forum that you cheated on your partner and lied to him about it. (I assume you have courageously not told him about this yet, yes?) Congratulations, also, on being not one who strives to be strong and good as a HUMAN BEING, but one who admits and accepts their own stupid, selfish faults to the point of defending them with reckless abandon.

Somebody build a monument to your greatness, please, immediately, I need it.

Someday maybe we'll get around the idea that it is morally laudable to be monogamous, and reprehensible to be otherwise. Society is democratic in that the majority idea rules. I would be a fool to fight your beliefs, but I don't have to subscribe to them. Rather than try to convert my spouse, I will omit the information, but I think you should calm down, this isn't a personal attack on you and you are behaving as though it is.

I whole heartedly disagree that cheating men are admired and cheating women reviled. I think that depends on your social circle more than any social norm.

There is no one reason why men or women cheat, lie, steal, or kill. They all do it for a variety of reasons.

To Bengi Moore. Frankly, cheating isn't really all that destructive. Sure, people's egos are bruised. A marriage might fall apart. The kids' homes are divided. But all of those outcomes might well have happened with or without the incidental cheat factor. All cheating does is make the person who was cheated on feel inadequate.

Infidelity simply is not the end of the world. In fact, it's not really that big of a deal.

Yeesh.

Firstly, at no point in this thread did I feel personally attacked. I'm just incredibly sarcastic in addition to being highly antagonistic when I argue. Secondly, the both of you are creepy, as well as the person who cheered you on for your "bravery," and sort of sad, too. Thirdly, I feel bad for the people dating you currently and the people who will be dating you in the future (as no doubt your current relationships will fail). Give them my regards.