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"Dialects"
by hcaudill

It's also obnoxious that he used the word "dialects" to refer to Afghan languages. This is a revealing verbal tic (Europeans and Americans speak languages, Africans and other tribal people speak dialects) that you find popping up in both speech and writing, coming from even with people who ought to know much better. Obama being the latest case in point.

Let's just be clear: They speak languages in Afghanistan, just like we do. There's a technical context in which the word "dialect" is appropriate and useful, but this isn't it.

Re: "Dialects"
by pwoxby

Obnoxious? Your sensitivity is in serious need of recalibration. American English is a dialect of English. There is nothing derogatory in saying that.

Indeed, in this Wikipedia sub-entry on the languages of Afghanistan, the word "dialect" is used three times:

<link>

Obama 08!

Language vs Dialect
by RCH1

According to Wikipedia -

"There are no universally accepted criteria for distinguishing languages from dialects. . . . The exact distinction is therefore a subjective one, dependent on the user's frame of reference".

Re: Language vs Dialect
by hcaudill

Like I said, the word "dialect" has a technical meaning: it's the narrowest phylogenetic category in a taxonomy of human speech (super-family/family/language/­dialect). In that sense, sure, the distinction between languages and dialects can be arbitrary and subjective.

But most people aren't linguists, and as the wikipedia article notes, to most laypeople the term dialect is used as a pejorative, even if not altogether consciously. It connotes something that doesn't quite rise to the status of a language: the speech of illiterates, of tribal people. It's jibber-jabber. In everyday speech no one ever uses the term to refer to European languages. When's the last time you heard a non-linguist refer to (Castillian) Spanish as a dialect? Or Irish? Or Polish? It just doesn't sound right. On the other hand, talk of African dialects, or indigenous dialects, or tribal dialects, just rolls off the tongue.

FWIW I'm an Obama donor, and I don't think this reflects particularly poorly on him: right-thinking people make this unwittingly condescending mistake all the time. And there are plenty of smart, liberal people who actually do have it in their heads that Africans etc. don't speak "real" languages; trust me, I've had this conversation more often than I'd have liked. Having dedicated a couple of years of my life to learning one of these languages (and it was a difficult, complex, nuanced and beautiful language) it is now my thankless task to rid the world of this prejudice, one messageboard at a time.

8^)

Re: Language vs Dialect
by pwoxby

"And there are plenty of smart, liberal people who actually do have it in their heads that Africans etc. don't speak "real" languages"

I'll have to take your word for that. I've never met anyone that ignorant. BTW, isn't "smart, liberal" sort of like "hardworking, white"? ;)

Obama 08!

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