If he can't come within 30 points of a Democratic opponent in West Virginia, how does he win when the Republicans get to vote? Same will happen in Kentucky. She'd get the black vote in North Carolina and similar states overwhelmingly as a candidate against a Republican, just like her husband and every other Democratic nominee has. The question is who gets the swing white "Reagan democrats" in Appalachian spine states and Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania etc. She'd get them. He won't. Introduce yourself to President McCain.

I don't understand your logic. This is a Democratic Primary not the General Election. To say that John McCain will pick up all of these Hilary supporters in the General Election is unsupported by any factual evidence on your part. Please provide it if you can. If West Virginia is scared of a black man holding the office of President of the United States and hesitant to vote for him because of this reason, it is their problem... a problem Hilary, if she cares so much about the Democratic Party, should do something about. How is it beneficial to have such hateful individuals identify themselves as Democrats? Will Hilary step up, recognize the hatred and ignorance of these people and enlighten them? That remains to be seen... and if she doesn't, what does that say about her? Is she thinking, "I, Hilary Clinton, hope the people of West Virginia keep their racist, ignorant sentiments with them as they head to the ballot box. This is beneficial to ME and screw everyone else." I imagine so. Of course, the white vote is the only vote that matters right? (Sarcasm)

I guess there are people in WV or KY who are fantasizing that their votes will somehow bring Hillary's campaign back life, but there aren't enough of them to do it, and it's not as if the WV or KY Democratic votes are going to matter at all in the general election.

Even using Hillary Clinton logic, WV and KY are not the kind of "big states" that count. Neither state is a swing state, so everybody already assumes that the electors from those states are going to go to the Republican candidate no matter who the Democrat is (and for that matter, no matter who the Republican is).

Earlier in the primary, Democratic delegates from WV and KY might have mattered, but now not so much.

Why do you bother to write it down then?

The WV votes won't matter in a general election?? No democrat has won the white house without carrying West Virginina since 1916. That means, Roosevelt (four times), Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Carter(all once) and Clintion (twice). It's a bellweather state that he better find some way of carrying. Same with Kyntucky, Tennesee, Arkansas, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Texas.

Well, if 65% of West Virginians like Hillary then when she goes BACK there in the summer and stumps for Obama they will like that. They will listen to her say how qualified he is, and how much she supports him.

Because they love her, and her husband, then Bill and Hillary will have a HUGE impact leading them to the Democratic candidate.

I imagine she will also be working hard in Pennsylvania, Ohio and Texas. Both Bill and Hillary (and probably Chelsea) will be out there saying that Obama respresents AMERICA and that ALL AMERICANS will be better off with a Democrat in the White House.

This primary will be forgotten - and WV will have had a nice day in the sun. The sunshine of Clinton-focus. They will certainly bet getting a lot of Clinton focus throughout the general election run.

Because, she IS their candidate. They BELIEVE in her. And they DO love her.

Agreed with artandsoul.

The general election is a differnt beast than the primaries, particularly this year. In the Democratic primary we basically had two candidates that agree with each other on the issues. So we were left to decide whom to choose based on the slight differences between their policies (universal healthcare mandate for adults? gas tax holiday?), OR based on other factors (personality, race, honesty, gender, religion, charisma, etc).

But in the general election this paradigm shifts back to issues. The Democratic and Republican candidates will differ markedly on major issues and at that point, I believe the 81% of Americans dissatisfied with the Bush Administration will speak loudly.

Further, we Americans have a pretty short memory. Once the primary season is officailly over, and the news has settled down for a week or so, people will forget that they felt so strongly about the Democratic primary and focus on the general election.

artandsoul:

Well, if 65% of West Virginians like Hillary then when she goes BACK there in the summer and stumps for Obama they will like that. They will listen to her say how qualified he is, and how much she supports him. . . .

I imagine she will also be working hard in Pennsylvania, Ohio and Texas. Both Bill and Hillary (and probably Chelsea) will be out there saying that Obama respresents AMERICA and that ALL AMERICANS will be better off with a Democrat in the White House.

This primary will be forgotten

I think your analysis may be too facile. This primary contest has been bitter, with both Obama and Clinton supporters being very ardent and, too often, mean. Many Obama supporters hate Clinton. Many have attacked Clinton and her supporters. Many Clinton supporter hate Obama. Many have attacked Obama and his supporters. To assume that they will embrace and that all will be forgiven is probably overly optimistic. It would be unusual if it happened.

<quote>Howard Dean, the Democratic party chairman . . . said he spent months trying <unsuccessfully> to persuade his supporters to rally behind John Kerry, the nominee. And they did not even dislike Mr Kerry. Gary Hart said that after he lost his divisive primary battle against Walter Mondale in 1984, he worked tirelessly – and held more than 40 campaign events – imploring his supporters to back the nominee. "And I was not able to move [them]," he said. <quote>

To slinkymello: I'm not going to address most of your unsupported attacks but I wanted to reply to this: "To say that John McCain will pick up all of these Hilary supporters in the General Election is unsupported by any factual evidence on your part. Please provide it if you can." First, lawpol never said that McCain would pick up all of Clinton's supporters in the general. Here's what lawpol said, which is quite different: "The question is who gets the swing white "Reagan democrats" in Appalachian spine states and Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania etc. She'd get them. He won't. Introduce yourself to President McCain."

The polls support that. <link>

Obama loses to McCain 237 to 290. He loses WV badly and probably loses MI, FL, and OH. He carries PA.

<link>

Clinton beats McCain 279 to 242. She wins WV, Ohio, PA, and FL. MI is a toss-up.

sassysenora - I think of it as more tongue-in-cheek than facile. Hillary's negative campaigning and incitement to fear regarding racial issues is quite real, don't get me wrong.

I understand the damage that has been done, but I prefer to stay focused on the more positive ways that this can be resolved.

I do believe that if Hillary and Bill come out forcefully behind Obama in the areas where they made such an impact (Ohio, Pennsylvania, Indiana, Florida) and where they have a following then they can help make a difference. There is no question in my mind that the Clintons hold/held far more sway than Howard Dean ever did. So his consolodiation with Kerry had veyr little impact.

But mostly it is all speculation. I think the states will look different from 2000 and 2004. I think frustration an ddisgust with Bush is underestimated and of course, there is the rest of the Election cycle to see what will be said and done by both candidates.

My main point is that Hillary has to get out and get behind the Democratic candidate. The sooner the better as far as I'm concerned.

artandsoul:

I understand the damage that has been done, but I prefer to stay focused on the more positive ways that this can be resolved.

I do believe that if Hillary and Bill come out forcefully behind Obama in the areas where they made such an impact (Ohio, Pennsylvania, Indiana, Florida) and where they have a following then they can help make a difference. . . .But mostly it is all speculation. I think the states will look different from 2000 and 2004. I think frustration an ddisgust with Bush is underestimated and of course, there is the rest of the Election cycle to see what will be said and done by both candidates.

I agree that it's all speculation and it's a long time to Nov (or even Aug, when the superDs decide the nominee). My main point is that Hillary has to get out and get behind the Democratic candidate. The sooner the better as far as I'm concerned.

I agree that it's all speculation and it's a long time to Nov (or even Aug, when the superDs decide the nominee). I think you're either ignoring or underestimating the damage Obama himself and his supporters have done to the Dems, though. It's not just Clinton, neither is it just Obama. Both seem to have alienated a large segment of the loyal Dem base. I think the Clintons may be able to help but it's only going to go so far. E.g., I don't see how he can win FL after he worked to disenfranchise so many ppl there by blocking the revote. I could be wrong, of course, but if I were Obama, I wouldn't count on FL as part of my General strategy.

I, for one, will not vote for Obama because of the things he (mostly) and his supporters have said and done during the primaries. I don't see what he could possibly do at this point to win me (or many other ppl I know) over. I was never a Reagan Dem, FWIW, and Obama is in trouble with many in the Dem party who don't fit that desciption as well as with many Reagan Dems.

I know that some Clinton supporters will vote for Obama, others will vote for McCain, and others will either not vote or vote for someone else regardless of what HRC says or does. But, as you say, it's all speculation and we'll have to see how things play out.

Sassysenora - Are you in Florida? If so, maybe you're in So. Florida - but I live in No. Florida and there is a lot of excitement and cohesion among Democrats FOR Obama. Some disapopinted Hillary supporters, but even they are more for the Party and for Obama than sore. No one in this area speaks of "disenfranchisement" - we know that the State Dem Leaders are to blame - not Obama and not Hillary.

But, being so close to the Capital and all, we've always been weird up here. Maybe it plays as "disenfranchisement" in the rest of of the state. I don't know.l

I do know that local races are very heated, and Democrats are poised to win in areas that have been traditionally Republican (in Florida) since Bob Martinez was Governor.

So, that is exciting - and while I won't predict an Obama win, it is going to be a well fought and close race here.